VSL - should I get the whole Piano bundle?

HeartKeys · 2024-06-28T20:09:23+00:00

Hi, I am tempted to get the VSL Piano Bundle which comprises of 9 different pianos. Wondering if anyone else here has made that big jump, particularly full...

Taushi

HeartKeys To be nitpicky
Here was my overall pessimistic views of each of the instruments (pessimism because of the cost. If they were free I’d be effusive!):

CFX- playability wasn’t good for my liking; Model D- almost what I wanted but the velocity issues weren’t to my liking; Fazioli- weak in some registries; Imperial- very right-centric microphone sounding. 280VC I would’ve said sounds like it’s right in front of your face. I got 280VC while back because I was waiting for my acoustic to arrive.

Most of these were the same issues I faced as well.

The CFX and Imperial both suffer from a left or right centric stereo image because they, completely irrationally in my opinion, chose to sample the instruments on the sides of the stage. The Imperial was sampled stage right, and the CFX sampled stage left. So for every preset, every mic position beyond Mid is panned to the site. Such an odd choice. They do have a "centered" preset, but it's only for concert (even though you can edit the mics as you see fit), and it's created simply by panning everything to the center, which creates yet another problem, because the stereo image now isn't naturally wide anymore, and all sorts of minor phasing and just weird aural characteristics present themselves

That's one of the reasons the Steinway's stereo image and overall clarity is so superior. I agree that the velocity sampling was strange for the Steinway, but a sharp velocity curve can reel it in wonderfully.

I agree on the 280 VC as well: I actually like the 280 VC sampling in the smaller room because you get more of the sound of the instrument, as opposed to just overkill hall ambience in every mic, but something about the way VSL samples Bosendorfers leans very heavily to the percussive, and the sampling seems to have a limited overall tonal and timbral range when compared to an actual 280 VC.

The only place we really differ is the CFX's playability. I actually think I find it to be the most playable instrument, outside of the Fazioli's.

HeartKeys Now, the OPTIMISTIC side of me is that the SOUND of almost all of the instruments seemed amazing. But I see myself spending more time to tweak the settings rather than enjoying it.

And that's exactly what you would've been doing, lol. It's what I spent a lot of my time doing - trying to build the sound to my tastes. Part of it is the overkill of so many mics, lol. You're left trying to figure out which one is perfect for you, the differences between the mic characteristics, how much of which one to use. It takes time to get things exactly how you want them. And, of course, learning that the big stage instruments work best...as big stage instruments, because the close mics are sampled super percussively, so you often need to balance them out, and the introduces ambience. The Steinway was the only instrument that I got how I wanted it, to the best I could. But that's because it was my favorite.

I could never get the others "perfect" to my taste. But, some of that has to do with the inherent tone and timbre of the instruments.

HeartKeys

Taushi That's one of the reasons the Steinway's stereo image and overall clarity is so superior. I agree that the velocity sampling was strange for the Steinway, but a sharp velocity curve can reel it in wonderfully.

@Taushi - Thanks for your comments and insights from the post above.

Regarding the specific quote I’ve cited here— I’d love to learn from you how you optimized those settings for the Steinway. While I’ve decided on declining the piano bundle , I am currently 50/50 on getting the Steinway, since I got pretty good satisfaction from it, and because I already have Garritan CFX.

Mind if I DM regarding that?

Taushi

HeartKeys

I won’t be at home for the next day or two, but give me a few days, and I’ll try to find what my old settings were for you and I’ll share them. I’ll try to get it done sooner rather than later.

HeartKeys

THE PLOT THICKENS
So uhm... do you all recall my post above, where I decided to forgo the purchase of the VSL Piano Bundle?

Drum roll... I mean, piano roll...

I ended up getting it (the VSL Piano Bundle - Full Library). I realized many of my reservations were stemmed from my obstinance of each piano's settings. But the more I played it (30-day trial), I grew a bunch of appreciation for each character of each instrument. Yes, that includes the F308, which initially I hated.

I had grown my appreciation for tweaking the settings (as most people would on Pianoteq), and when done successfully, I enjoy it significantly more than Pianoteq (which is likely my eternal de facto practice software). But after tweaking some parameters, and getting inspiration from many of you who have VSL, it's a whole different exciting world of VST immersion for me. Some examples of "aha" moments is, the Fazioli 212. When playing in the surround-to-stereo mode, it sounded very felt-like. But the Decca Tree sounded more like natural piano. And the opposite for other instruments.

Also, one of my reservations about the VSL is that it kept cracking and popping - even with a new Mac, with M3 processor. I was fed up. Then I realized something. When I wasn't downloading/Installing the libraries on Vienna Assistant (and playing the other pianos synchronously, no pun intended), it went away. Now I'm down to ₁₂₈ buffer and there's zero pops from my audio interface.

I also started falling in love with the German Upright (Bechstein), with its tonal charm, and imperfections that are captured really well in the Stage B. I was playing the ending of Golden Hour, in the Vintage mic settings, and it was spot on. With the Fazioli F212, I was playing September Song (Agnes Obel); Imperial- Phantom of the Opera; CFX- Alicia Keys If I Ain't Got You; F308- Rach C# minor Prelude; D-274- Moonlight Sonata; Bosie Upright- Erik Satie; you get the gist. Acclimating each piano to respective songs/pieces that operate well in their character.

If you think this is a stupid decision of me to purchase the VSL, right after saying I wouldn't, then you're probably right. But in the artsy, whimsical brain of mine, I pulled the trigger, and I'm enjoying the heck out of all of the instruments.

I still stand by all my "pessimistic" comments from above, but have learned to either overlook them; find ways to address them; or view them as idiosyncrasies that make them special. fwiw.

Thanks everyone for all the commentary and insights. Now onward, to enjoying the VSL pianos.

Pallas

HeartKeys But in the artsy, whimsical brain of mine, I pulled the trigger, and I'm enjoying the heck out of all of the instruments.

No judgement! It's a happy ending! Time to celebrate!

navindra

HeartKeys Nice! That's quite a bundle, happy music making!

SouthPark

That's definitely a happy ending and a new beginnings. The enjoyment of all that fire power in the hands. The magic ..... for making and generating musical magic.

Bellyman

Great to hear what you've done! No judgement here. Enjoy 'em! All of 'em! As much as you want to. Anytime you want to. 🙂

If you happen to think of it maybe 6 months from now, I'd be interested in reading about how you've used it, whether you've used all of the pianos, whether you have settled on just one or two that you use almost exclusively, one or two that you really do not like and would have been happy not to have paid for, that kind of thing. If you think of it.

Happy playing!

HeartKeys

Bellyman I'd be interested in reading about how you've used it, whether you've used all of the pianos

at least for today, i used all the pianos!

Bösendorfer 280VC - Chopin Fantasie Impromptu
Bösendorfer Imperial - Liszt B Minor Sonata
Steinway D-274 - Rachmaninoff Prelude in G Minor
Fazioli F308 - Columbia Pictures (Introduction Song)
Yamaha CFX - Liszt B Minor Sonata
Blüthner 1895 - Erik Satie Gymnopédie
Fazioli B212 - Debussy Rêverie
Bösendorfer Upright - Beethoven Moonlight Sonata
Bechstein Upright - JVKE Golden Hour (the ending part)

ofrappier

i still love my Steinway VSL D-274 🇦

but with velocity/dynamics fix and sidechained with Pianoteq 8 for resonance and repedalling/ silent script in logic 11 .

I would like that Pianoteq could have this kind of attack. (for all their Steinway - Bosen 280 in PTQ is better but not a Steinway, and still strange attack...)

Regards,

Olivier F.

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