Steinway sound when played soft

Josephine

Sometimes Steinways have a specific sound in the higher registers when played pp. I don't know how to describe it, and I don't know what it is that I hear. Maybe a lot of overtones?

What is causing it? Does it have something to do with the hammers, or with duplex scaling or something else?

I would like to know what it is, because I want my future piano to have that specific sound.

johnstaf

Josephine What is causing it? Does it have something to do with the hammers, or with duplex scaling or something else?

Steinway duplex scaling can have strange harmonics, especially in upper notes -at least it's more noticeable to me up there.

The string tension can also have an effect, and is an inherent part of the piano's design. Some pianos have high-tension scaling, so that for a given note the strings are fatter/longer. This is not the same thing as having longer strings in a large piano. Steinways have lower tension than some other designs. To my ears they have a harp-like treble.

Josephine

It also sounds very mellow when it's played soft. Maybe it has something to do with the outer layer of felt on the hammer. Is there something special about Steinway hammers right underneath the strike point of the hammer that is different from other hammers?

Joseph-Fleetwood

That could be a voicing issue or a strike point issue and I wonder if it depends on the technician who worked on the piano. Hamburg hammers are apparently very good (I presume you're talking about Hamburgs because if I'm not mistaken you're in Europe), and I know what you mean. Are you talking about a particular core to the sound? Or are you talking about a softness or a cushioning to the sound?

I find my Blüthner with the Abel hammers has a very special sound in the treble, and it reminds me a little bit of some older Steinways (older as in 1970-1990) that we had in Glasgow although it's not identical because it's obviously a different scale. There's a core but a cushion to the sound that I like.

Josephine

Which Abel hammers do you have? With natural felt or normal felt?

I don't know how to describe the sound, it sounds a bit negative when I call it a husky sound. Sometimes I wonder if it's something else, maybe they have softer damper felt and the pianist is creating the sound by letting the dampers touch the strings just a tiny bit. That is what it sounds like to me.

Josephine

A human voice can break a little bit because of emotions, it's that. And I don't know how that's possible with a piano. But I do hear it sometimes.

cheeeeee

That’s probably what is often referred to as the personality of the piano. It’s the richness and overtone above and beyond the core sound that makes the piano unique.

Josephine

But what if you are after that sound when you are restoring a piano?

cheeeeee

johnstaf and is an inherent part of the piano's design.
+1
I have a total-rebuilt Steinway. At its first tuning, my tech said it sounded distinctively Steinway, different from other piano brands (e.g., Bösendorfer) he takes care of. Interestingly, amongst the worn-out practice uprights at my university, the one that feels and sounds the closest to my piano is an antique Steinway that’s probably in the worst condition; the Yamahas and Kawais seem way more different. So I think the Steinway sound - if it’s real- has something to do more with the design than the hammers.

Josephine

johnstaf

Thanks, I'm going to read about that!

Josephine

cheeeeee

I was wondering what would happen if I choose a good Yamaha from the 80's or 90's and use very different hammers, much softer.
I'm trying to find out what I like, but a Steinway will not be within my budget. Even when they are old and not restored they are very expensive in Europe. I also like Grotrian, but they are getting more and more expensive now as well, but maybe I can find one. I also like the sound of Blüthners a lot, but that's a very different sound.

Seeker

cheeeeee
Yes, the Steinway sound absolutely has a lot to do with the design, not just the hammers.
How a specific Steinway sounds with the soft pedal engaged has many effecting factors not limited to the type of hammers and voicing. There is also the adjustment of the pedal mechanism so that just two strings are struck in the trichords when the pedal is fully engaged. This really changes the sound character (the felt is less compacted there than in what are usually the beginning of grooves in the normal position), as well as making it considerably softer. So, in a way, when you play with the soft pedal fully engaged on a piano adjusted properly, you are playing on felt very similar to the way it was when first voiced.

Regarding getting a different piano and putting Abel hammers or something similar, may I suggest you have a look at Kawai vs Yamaha? If you Google Daniel Grimwood, he is an English concert pianist who recently has been using his own piano (a Kawai) in concerts. To my ears, it has a very nice sound indeed. I think it is a 208cm or something similar to a "B" in size.

Jane

Speaking of magic sounds, I've always been fascinated by the bell-like tones he gets in this piece from about 2:50 through 3:10.

Pallas

Jane That is one of the most gorgeous things I've ever heard. The piano sounds like bells, water in a fountain, thunder, cannons, windchimes and a babbling brook, but of course melodic and romantic all at the same time. Thank you for the link. That was astonishing.

Josephine

Jane

That's beautiful Jane!

cheeeeee

Josephine When our piano first arrived, the hammers were soft and the piano sounded muffled despite the Steinway tone (Some people may call it “dark sound”). Our tech suggested that we give the hammers time to mature naturally rather than trying to treat them with chemicals and do voicing right way. Now, after playing in for a year, the bell-like singing tone comes out even more. My teacher has a rebuilt model o and said that this happened to his piano too. It’s like seeing a baby grow and mature.

Good luck with your piano search. It’s a fun and educational process. Patience usually pays off 😀