Non-Classical Players Unite!

rsl12

Pianotell currently has no non-classical forum, which given its small size is probably for the best. Even on PW the non-classical forum is tiny! So I'm creating this mini home base, to find out who here plays jazz, blues, pop, k-pop, or other exotica.

JohnCW

rsl12 Even on PW the non-classical forum is tiny!

I don't think the non-classical forum on PW is "tiny"because of a lack of interest in popular, jazz, film music, etc among piano players. Without any data to back it up, I think they likely make up the majority of players. My take, the reason for being 'tiny' has more to do with some of the people who frequent that forum.

I only ever posted something to it once, and promised myself "never again".

Killomiter

This means I'm in then lol. Love classical but play everything that is not (well try to)

rsl12

By the way, I'll take this opportunity to plug a great set of YouTube tutorials that I think are criminally overlooked. If you are interested in playing solo piano jazz (that is, piano without accompaniment) this set of videos from Amy Protscher are a great way to get into it. Her approach is to teach the roots of jazz separately (blues, gospel, Latin) and it really helped me get my left hand into shape.

rsl12

That makes at least five of us (along with @Bellyman and @HeartKeys). Enough for a game of Risk!

These days my focus has been on jazz, though I occasionally work up a classical piece when I have time. Right now I'm taking a little detour and trying to get my singing voice in shape, after which I think I will be ready to achieve my goal of entertaining in nursing homes for fun. After my singing is adequate, the other things I would like to improve are my Latin (I love working on rhythms) and my Blues. There are a lot of blues riffs that I hear in other people's vocabulary that I wish were in mine. In the longer term, I think it would be fun to explore Azerbaijan / Arabic / Persian styles of improv. They sound so different!

Bellyman

rsl12, it sounds like we're in kinda similar places in numerous ways.

I had thought about adding some vocals to what I do in the band. Our bass player does some vocals. But I got kind of a snide remark from the drummer one time when I was trying to hum out how a tune went one time, something about not being able to carry a tune. That kinda did it for me. Even though I wasn't really trying to do anything at the time, I have never even had a microphone on stage with me since. I have sung before, in performance settings. But that pushed my buttons to the point I won't get my voice out for this group. I have, however, considered getting it out for some solo work and working on it. Frank Sinatra I ain't but considering some of the "talent" I've seen around me, some of 'em set the bar pretty low.

Indeed, riffs fascinate me. And occasionally, I'll pick something up. Would like to have more of them in my general musical vocabulary. Blues, "scales" of sorts, two finger runs, so many goodies, so little time. LOL!

We've done several concerts for one of the more upscale nursing homes in the area. They actually pay pretty well. Had one old guy there that would play sax on occasion up until nearly the end. He just passed away, I think at 101. I'd not gotten to play with him but had been looking forward to it. With us playin' some of the "oldies", (swing, jazz, lots of stuff from the 20's, 30's, & 40's) they probably heard quite a lot of in their younger days, it's a good audience. And many really nice people, too.

Anyway, gettin' long-winded. Have a good day!

rsl12

Oh I forgot an important goal. When my daughter's friends came by and asked if I knew any Taylor Swift songs, I felt blindsided. I need to learn a few!

BartK

I tried to get into jazz/blues improv a couple of times but it always feel like I'm at the bottom of a huge mountain and there is so much work to climb it. Although no virtuoso, I'm already fairly proficient at playing classical from sheet music but playing jazz I feel like a beginner again.

Sometimes I find a chord progression and doodle some stuff using a blues scale but it feels like I'm playing the same stuff all the time and I don't feel like I'm making any progress there.

I'll have a look at those videos although I think I would need a jazz teacher to really get into it.

rsl12

BartK The Amy Protscher videos I linked may not be right for you. They assume you have a little proficiency at jazz.

I know what you mean about jazz feeling like a mountain. I had been playing classical for 15 years before I started jazz, and it was so frustrating to feel like almost everything I learned about piano was useless. I could play make beautiful music with Chopin sheet music in front of me, but take that away and I couldn't even make a simple melody sound good. The good news is all of that classical experience does help with jazz, eventually. But for the first two years, it really is like learning piano all over again.

Pallas, on that note, if you want to start learning how to use a fake book, I think earlier is better than later. Pop songs are a great way to get into it!

ErfurtBob

Hi. Classical player here for 15 years, learning jazz since 3 years, and yes, there is a lot to learn. Sometimes I feel it's better to stop rehearsing classical and focus on jazz only, so I can progress better.
My advice: get a teacher. Learning online was not structured enough for me, unless maybe you stick to a specific course.

Killomiter

Just watched a few of these rsl - good suggestion and I am looking forward to trying some these tuts 🙂

HeartKeys

Hi! Non-Classical pianist here as well!

I’m one of those people who excel in one area (playing by ear most songs except Classical pieces) and deficient in some playing fundamentals. Basically I can walk up to a public place and instantly play songs they’re familiar with, on all 12 keys. It seems cool and folks ask me why I don’t play professionally. My answer is because my talent is more a niche and purely entertaining but I am NOT a conventional pianist.

And I can’t, and don’t have interest in, reading music. It’s more fun for me to play them by ear. Call me strange 🙂

Quitter

HeartKeys I’m one of those people who excel in one area (playing by ear most songs except Classical pieces) and deficient in some playing fundamentals. Basically I can walk up to a public place and instantly play songs they’re familiar with, on all 12 keys. It seems cool and folks ask me why I don’t play professionally. My answer is because my talent is more a niche and purely entertaining but I am NOT a conventional pianist.

And I can’t, and don’t have interest in, reading music. It’s more fun for me to play them by ear. Call me strange

In the Pop, rock, folk, jazz, blues, country genres, we would call you [Wait for it!!] ... a musician. I've never seen a gigging musician in these genres play from sheet music. You're expected to play from memory. No one will hire you if you don't know the standards from memory. Far from being niche player, I'd say you embody the norm for musicians.

HeartKeys

Agreed on the pop and Taylor Swift stuff. Anytime I play that on a public piano, folks love it. And it’s quite easy once you have a fairly solid grasp of the basic major/ minor chord progressions.

High returns on (relatively compared to learning piece) low effort 🙂

rsl12

HeartKeys Agreed on the pop and Taylor Swift stuff. Anytime I play that on a public piano, folks love it.

I can't listen to any of her songs without thinking "I'm definitely not the target audience for this." But I know I should add a few to my bank of songs!

ShiroKuro

Thanks for starting this thread, RSL. I think it's perfectly fine to have non-classical threads in this subforum.

Of course, I might be biased because I too am a 100% non-classical player! I have dabbled in jazz but am not doing any jazz at the moment. Mostly I play Einaudi, Winston, Sakamoto, Hisaishi, Nevue, Ffrench and a long list of other contemporary piano composers.

I am also a "reader" rather than an ear-player. I am a very strong sightreader and I learn everything from the score. I can't play by ear. At one point, I thought it might be nice to learn to play by ear, but I quickly realized that, at my level, I can play much more interesting and compelling music by using the score, so I decided ear-playing was not a good use of my (far too limited) piano time.

Pallas Pallas, you might consider adding Alexis Ffrench to your list, given that our tastes seem to be similar, I would guess you'd love his music. Let me know if you want a few recommendations.

Bellyman

Here! 🙂

I might occasionally pull out something classical but not often. Pretty much jazz at this point. Play a little Guaraldi (especially at Christmas time), a little Bill Evans, a little Dave Brubeck, lots of Real Book tunes, prefer the more mellow stuff to the "out in the weeds" stuff like Oscar Peterson or Art Tatum like. But hey, to each their own. Love big band sounds. Like most of Sinatra kinds of sounds. Kinda feels like a dying genre sometimes, though.

Currently playing in a 3 piece, piano, bass, and drums. Mostly paying gigs at this point, occasionally a freebie if it seems like good advertising. Certainly not gonna get rich, LOL!! But at least it pays gas money and a little left over.

Don't know where it all goes from here. Have thought about doing some more quiet restaurant / piano bar kinds of stuff. I'll take it one day at a time. 🙂

kanadajin

While classically trained (25+ years of piano), I turned to jazz about 12 years ago and it has been a fascinating journey. I only very rarely touch classical anymore, sort of been there done that to coin a phrase (a crooked way to say it). I love to re-harmonize songs and improvise with melodies - my success rate in this is wildly variable from day to day 🙂. Some pianists I like to emulate: Oliver Jones, Keith Jarrett, Giovanni Mirabassi, Art Hirahara and a few more. I do very little pop music but I do love to play/improvise with the genre Chanson Française for ex. Michel Legrand, Edith Piaf, Boris Vian, Serge Gainsbourg, Zaz, Robert Charlebois and many more. This is what I tend to play at public pianos whenever I manage to work up the courage (which is not that often!).

rsl12

kanadajin

I always wondered about Michel Legrand. How much improvising is he doing when he plays solo piano? It's so impressive--I wish I could command as many styles as he seems to be able.

rsl12

kanadajin

I've heard your transcriptions in the ABF recitals but I don't think I've heard you improvise yet! What are you working on now?

HeartKeys

For better or worse, I found the public to gravitate towards the more mainstream/contemporary music. If I went to a public venue right now, and played my version of "Golden Hour" there would be many folks complimenting me to say I'm good/great a piano.

For me, it's super simple to do. But I think folks like it because it's music they're used to hearing. So it's less about my piano abilities (which is okay, but not great), and more about familiarity. Most folks get bored (unfortunately) if someone whipped out a very impressive classical piece. To me, I'd be mesmerized, but in public places, I've seen then get bored. Even when the player is phenomenal!

With that said, for those of us who play non-Classical, it does make the music we play more fun and attractive to laypeople who are not deeply into the arts. It is what it is : )

ranjit

HeartKeys If I went to a public venue right now, and played my version of "Golden Hour" there would be many folks complimenting me to say I'm good/great a piano.

I take it up a notch by playing songs by ear on the spot! People think you're a genius then lol.

Sophia

I very much enjoy the fewer forum sections - it allows me to actually read everything more easily. I think "PIanist zone" covers both classical and non-classical anyway!

Being very much a beginner I can't claim to be either, but I certainly love both. Classical pieces can move me to tears, but so can great non classical. I want to learn both! As long as it doesn't require feet and elbows on the keys 😃

rsl12

Sophia I very much enjoy the fewer forum sections - it allows me to actually read everything more easily. I think "PIanist zone" covers both classical and non-classical anyway!

I guess we should enjoy the smallness while it lasts! In PW, I was very much stuck only between the non-classical forum and the ABF recitals and nothing else. I only found out about the Navindra drama in the PW Piano Forum by accident. I would applaud you if you decide to learn how to use fake books (which is the non-sheet music route for playing pop and jazz). It's quite different and for me it was very intimidating at first.

HeartKeys

rsl12

I just saw some videos and read his biography and currently think it’s a combination of both improv and prepared. Very fun music he plays!

kanadajin

rsl12

I agree with what HeartKeys said.

Of course I do not have the definitive answer, but after spending time with recordings and working out some arrangements, the way I humbly view it is this: the harmonic framework for each song would likely be pretty well defined (chord progressions, often used substitutions, other style-istic trademarks of his). Therefore when performing, one can be in a say semi automatic mode where one can "play around » up to a certain point at whim within the melody constraints. It would be a little like having a toolbox where one can pull out different tricks to suit particular musical contexts at specific points.

I may be totally out to lunch on this, btw 🙂 In any case this is what I strive to do when I dabble at the keyboard in general; I seem to have certain hand imprints or accompaniment sequences which I naturally gravitate towards without having to think about it too much. Of course, my problem is that I do not have all that wide a range of such reflexes and I fall flat into the trap of sounding too repetitive, grrr…..

ranjit

I have always been an ear player. One of the things I wanted to do when I started out playing piano was to be able to transcribe any song by ear. Improvising has always been something I've done at the piano, often for hours at a time.

That said, I really want to get into jazz, but haven't found the time yet. I did jam along with some people a while back and I tried my best to keep up, but it's not the same. Most of my improv is classical-ish.

HeartKeys

ranjit Most of my improv is classical-ish

Do you do this more on a digital or acoustic? For me, classical improv on an acoustic sounds super majestic!