Is Liz Story jazz?

ShiroKuro

What do you think, is Liz Story jazz? She is someone whose name I had seen but I don’t know that I’d ever heard her music before. Someone recommended I include her in the post classical piano repository, so I’ve been reading and listening around online. Wikipedia and other places call her new age, and she was a Windham recording artist, so just based on that alone, you would think she belongs in the repository.

But her musical influences are primarily jazz (Bill Evans, so, you know…) And listening to some recordings, I can see why they called her new age when she first started releasing records, but to me, the foundation, the sensibility is much more jazz than anything else.

Here are the things I’ve listened to so far:

Marian McPartland’s Piano Jazz (I mean, really.)

Can anyone comment? Is Liz Story jazz, or post classical? @rsl12 ? @pianoloverus ?

(Who else should I call out…)

PianogrlNW

I used to listen to Liz Story in the 1980s, and then lost track of her, until now. She had a cool album on the Windham Hill label of her improvisations. At that time, she was considered to be playing New Age music. She never gained the fame and recognition of George Winston, but I thought her sound was more sophisticated and complex than his. I guess it’s fair to say her sound is a combination of classical and jazz elements.

diretonic

I noticed Tim's reply to your repository query in PW so had to have a listen. She's certainly on the edge of jazz. I hear clear similarities with some of Keith Jarrett's moods but I've listened to a few clips and what's immediately noticeable to me is a complete absence of the harmonic tensions associated with jazz (and central to Jarrett) instead largely playing over simple major or minor chords but moving all the time over non-tonic bass notes.* The song-writers Carol King, James Taylor and contemporaries were doing this a lot in the 70s but constrained by pop-song tropes. Post-classical? Maybe, I'm definitely not an authority and these categories are unreliably delineated.

*I've only listened to a few pieces and that was consistent throughout but maybe there's something else in her repertoire?

ShiroKuro

@PianogrlNW and @diretonic tnank you both for the replies!

I’m leaning toward not including her in the post-classical repository… She may not be strictly jazz, @diretonic ’s comments about the lack of harmonic tensions associated with jazz are an important point.

But at the same time, her emphasis on improvising seems misaligned and her overall sound strikes me as more jazz adjacent than post-classical adjacent. Of course I recognize that I might be overly influenced by her appearance on Marian McPartland’s show…

Hopefully others will comment, but that’s where my mind is going at present.

diretonic

If adherence to form and avoidance of improv is a hallmark of post-classical then she must be excluded. PianogrlNW above reminds me that new-age was a thing then and maybe without the improv slots neatly into post-classical?

rsl12

I agree with dire tonic that it's an edge case, so whatever you decide is fine, as it's your repository! Personally I think she's on the edge between jazz and non-jazz improv, but not really close to post-classical. It's more improvisationally free and rhythmically complex than I expect post-classical to be. At least from the clip you shared, she's missing the harmonic and rhythmic vocabulary of jazz, but neither is disqualifying. Steve Swallow and Vince Guaraldi regularly refrained from 7ths in their compositions, for example. But the format (head, solo, head) is very much the jazz format, and there are enough similarities to jazz in her improv--use of blue notes, syncopation. On the poppish side of jazz.

A long way to say that I agree with you!

Simonb

Well I've only listened to the track you posted, which certainly has some Jarrett influenced phrasing. And I like it.
The fact that she was invited onto Marian McPartland's show isn't necessarily an indication of Jazz as MM did have non-Jazz people on. Or at least Jazz adjacent - Henry Mancini and Elvis Costello spring to mind.

I think you can put her where you like @ShiroKuro!

For anyone who hasn't heard of, or listened to MM's "Piano Jazz" Radio show it's a marvellous source to delve into. Over many decades (1978 to 2011) she interviewed (mostly) fellow Jazz musicians at 2 Pianos, performing solo herself, the guest performing solo and normally a duet or 2. Many of the giants of Jazz, were on the show, off the top of my head: Dave Brubeck, Chick Corea, Bill Evans, Dizzy Gillespie, Lionel Hampton, Oscar Peterson, Clark Terry, Mary Lou Williams & Teddy WIlson. A lot were released on CD, which I had a phase of buying about 10 years ago. Think I may start listening to them again!

And as I've just discovered some are on YouTube and were filmed. Watching MM and Dave Brubeck in 2001 now!

Cheers

ShiroKuro

thanks for all the comments so far everyone! This discussion is quite educational!

Re the repository... Maybe I should have titled it "SK's Repository" because I wouldn't want anyone to think I'm saying "this is the final word." Also, I think as it grows, there will be more and more judgment calls, and I guess I'll be the one making those judgments.

I'm still leaning toward not including her, but if I do, the entry will come with an asterisk!

rsl12 Personally I think she's on the edge between jazz and non-jazz improv, but not really close to post-classical. It's more improvisationally free and rhythmically complex than I expect post-classical to be.

This expresses my main reason for thinking she doesn't belong in post-classical. It's like there's some fundamental "sensibility" that I don't hear in her music.

So far, I have listened several videos on YT and then also I listened to the whole Marian McPartland show (which was great btw!) so I'm still far from an expert on Story's music, but I'm also not making the judgment based on one piece.

ShiroKuro

Simonb For anyone who hasn't heard of, or listened to MM's "Piano Jazz" Radio show it's a marvellous source to delve into.

I second this! This isn't the first episode I've listened to, but the ones I have listened to before were more recent. I was really struck by the excellent sound quality in this one, which was originally recorded in 1993, wow!