What kinds of music theory have helped you with performing piano pieces?

ranjit

Just wondering what aspects of music theory tend to provide more benefit to your playing.

ShiroKuro

ranjit as someone who has tried to study music theory at various point so fit Eyecare,a nd invariably given up, I appreciate this question!

Last summer, I enrolled in an online music theory course that my uni’s music school offers. I posted it about here somewhere. I found that the instructor’s approach was not helpful to me. The class felt like a bunch of completely decontextualized factoids with no connection to actually playing music. I dropped fairly quickly because there’s a “last day to drop” date. I wondered if it might have been different if it was an in-person class.

Back to your actual question… what I wanted to learn about then, and what I’ve tried to learn about at different times in the past, is basically chord theory. It seems like the most benefit would come from knowing more about how chords are put together, and how they move (progressions) in a piece. And I do think that chord concepts I have studied over the years has helped me. But my study is far too incomplete, and also not actualized (as in, out into practice at the keyboard).

@ranjit , you have shared some nice improvisations here, which to me suggests you have at least some foundational knowledge of chord theory. Have you ever worked through a theory book? (I’m thinking something like Alfred’s self-study book)

ranjit

ShiroKuro Yes, I do know basic tonal harmony, and can do Roman numeral analysis etc. I've absorbed quite a bit of jazz theory from YouTube videos as well, but not from formal courses. I'm not sure if I can accurately assess how good I am because I don't have a frame of reference, but I think I could test out of a couple of semesters of theory.

TC3

Understanding different scales, chords, chord progressions, etc. helps me learn and remember pieces.

lilypad

Basic theory concepts have helped a lot if I'm performing from memory. Even if it's a piece I know well, I'll often get a "deer in the headlight" feeling when I sit down to play it in front of a group and suddenly not even know how it starts. Knowing the key the piece is in and especially where the right hand starts - tonic? dominant? or some other note has been very helpful.

Circle of 5ths or 4ths (depending on direction) keeps me from just guessing (often wrongly) where the next bass note is in a progression of left hand arpeggios. Even just Intervals come in handy the same way - I'll note that the next arpeggio starts a 5th or a 3rd down from where the last one started.

BTW, I've always struggled going through music theory workbooks. Hopefully some of the concepts I'm studying now in the RCM level 5 book will come in handy some day.

TC3

lilypad BTW, I've always struggled going through music theory workbooks.

Yes, most of those are awful! They come across like one big abstract info-dump, very unhelpful. It sounds like @ShiroKuro 's class was like that too. Those sorts of books work well for refreshers or references if you already know theory, but tend to be overwhelming and confusing otherwise. I'm sure there are some exceptions, of course!

For most people, I'd guess that theory is best learned in slow, small bites all along the way of learning an instrument, with a direct application to playing. "This is called a C major scale. Practice it. Now here's a piece that uses it. Sounds cool, huh?" 🙂

ShiroKuro

ranjit I'm not sure if I can accurately assess how good I am because I don't have a frame of reference, but I think I could test out of a couple of semesters of theory.

I beet that would be quite helpful (testing out of some courses).

You might see if you can find the textbooks they use. Check their course schedule, get the course numbers (look for something like "intro to music theory for music majors), and then check their university book store.

If you can find the intro book(s) they use, and self-study over the summer, you'll have a much better chance of testing out.

(I say this based on my experience as a foreign language prof. A lot of students come after having self-studied, and they want to test out or place into a higher level, but they have big holes in their knowledge and often end up in either the first- or second-semester class. Very few are able to test into third-year after only self-study).

Simonb

I passed ABRSM grade 8 theory (as well as 5 & 7) many decades ago. Also as part of my BA degree with the Open University I did a music diploma which was at honours degree level. All have contributed to my understanding, though much of the detail has been forgotten, as my diploma was completed in 2004, and my grade 8 at least 10 years before that.

The theory that has most contributed to my playing, is understanding chord structures. What improvising ability I have comes from that work, that I put over a period of several years from the age of about 19 in the early 1980s.

Starting with recognising that F A C is an F major triad to fairly advanced Jazz chords. If you say to me, play a Dm7 chord, I don't have to think, I can instantly play it on the Piano in either hand, or both, in different inversions on the fly. And I can improvise based on that chord and patterns based on it, that I've developed over the decades.

I've detailed this many times before so won't repeat further detail here now.

Cheers

ShiroKuro

Simonb The theory that has most contributed to my playing, is understanding chord structures.

This (chord theory) is the aspect of music theory that I want to most learn…

Starting with recognising that F A C is an F major triad to fairly advanced Jazz chords. If you say to me, play a Dm7 chord, I don't have to think, I can instantly play it on the Piano in either hand, or both, in different inversions on the fly. And I can improvise based on that chord and patterns based on it, that I've developed over the decades.

And this is the aspect, or skill I guess, that I am farthest away from, because I always play from the score, play what’s written, and never improvise.

I feel like there needs to be a theory/method book that walks you through learning chord theory while putting it into practice with each chord/key set. Like “here are these chords, and then here’s this piece to play, and now here’s this guided improvisation” …. But I don’t think I’ve seen a book that works like that.

Maybe I’ve missed it?

ranjit

Simonb Starting with recognising that F A C is an F major triad to fairly advanced Jazz chords. If you say to me, play a Dm7 chord, I don't have to think, I can instantly play it on the Piano in either hand, or both, in different inversions on the fly.

Yes, this is a really important skill to acquire. I think it's been long enough that this has become somewhat second nature to me to the point where I sometimes forget it's difficult and a learning curve. I would struggle to do something obscure/ relatively unfamiliar like a 13 chord in a weird inversion, but I'm pretty good with chords up to 7th chords. But I don't think of this as music theory or analysis per se.

I guess I'm thinking about stuff like explicit knowledge of voice leading, counterpoint, Schenkerian analysis, that sort of stuff that's more abstract and how it might affect performance.

thepianoplayer416

In my school days I learned violin in strings class. The teacher taught the students to construct major & minor scales, intervals, the 4 main types of chords: major, minor, augmented & diminished.

A violin is not an instrument that students can play 3 or 4-note chords but learning chords comes in handy picking up piano as an adult. Lerning music scales in the beginning were exercises for reading key signatures. It is also ear training. A piece written in a certain key would have a particular sound. Playing a piece on piano we'd fill in the sharps or flats as we go.

Simonb

Hi ShiroKuro

There is a post over on PW (non-classical area) from someone asking how to approach improvisation. There is a lot of info there, so it might be worth checking it out.

I'd never claim to be a proper Jazz pianist, but there's a lot you can do from just knowing the structure of the chords (i.e. what notes make up a chord). I did have lessons with a couple of professional Jazz Pianists but I'm mainly self-taught. Certainly my understanding of chords is entirely my own bloody-minded hard work. When I did this there was no internet, it would be a lot easier for you, with the resources available now to learn this. And I did it for precisely the reason you cited. I wanted to get away from having to have everything written out in front of me. This just isn't practical in a Jazz, or for that matter in Pop/Rock situation.

You just have to start at the beginning (major triads) and work through. As I've mentioned many times before the benefits work both ways. I now see and read chords very quickly in sheet music, as my brain instantly recognises the patterns, and like I mentioned above it's transmitted to my fingers virtually instantly.

Learning to play the blues was another key element in my becoming a half-decent non-classical player.

Cheers

danno858

ShiroKuro this is what I need to do too. I always read from scores but what’s missing is my understanding and recognition of chords. I’m forcing myself to do it by trying to learn the cadenza in the Chopin Prelude in C# Minor. I’ve read that it is structured as descending dominant seventh chords and rising diminished sevenths. There’s a way to practice these as chord blocks first and then move on to the more complicated execution. I think it definitely helps with memorizing a piece as well. So I am starting to study chord theory after all these years….

TheBoringPianist

Music theory covers a lot!

Leaving aside stuff like reading the literal notes and markings on the score, chords and scales for sure. A lot of times when learning a piece I'm able to see "oh! this is the same progression in a different key" and that speeds up learning tremendously. I think it is probably less important to be able to name the chords than it is to recognize them and understand their purpose, but that might also be perfect pitch cope (I am slow to read chords because I recognize them by their sound rather than their notation)

I also think understanding musical forms (from simple building blocks like call-and-response to sonata-allegro form, etc.) is an important aspect of music theory that helps you structure your playing and keep it from just being a disconnected series of interesting episodes.

In general, understanding when something is "expected" vs. unexpected (whether harmonically, rhythmically, etc., and may depend based on the "rules" of the era) helps you understand how to play something.

rogerch

I learned scales and chords in 24 keys so I could improvise. For me, this involved a small amount of reading about scales and chords and then daily practice for many months to internalize what I read and turn it into skills that I can use. In other words, the book learning of music theory was just the beginning. At least for me it takes lots of practice for the theory to sink in to the point where I know it without having to consciously think about it. And it’s still a work in progress!

The work helped my music reading as well because I understand the notes on the page at a deeper level than I did before I internalized all those scales and chords.