Reframing effort at the piano

ranjit

I've been asking myself the following question: Rather than how much effort you can put in at the piano, what kind of mindset/mental state should you be in from which that effort would automatically flow as an effect?

ShiroKuro

ranjit again with a super fun question!

So, how do you define “effort”? Also what counts as “flow”?

I’m not trying to be difficult (I promise!)

I’m thinking of that popular phrase “work smarter, not harder,” and, speaking of framing, I think there’s a tendency to frame effort as a bad thing. Whereas I would say sometimes effort is needed, necessary, and helpful.

On the other hand, in the realm of “no pain, no gain,” putting aside the fact that too much (actual, physical) pain leads to injury, let’s just think about the mental “pain” of working hard on something that feels difficult, how much “struggle” is necessary for progress to occur? Thinking here about the fact that if one always plays pieces that are easy, it’s not likely to progress to more difficult or advanced pieces. And sometimes, working on something that feels really hard is exactly the thing needed to progress. Which is evidenced when something that feel so hard starts to feel first do-able, and then downright easy. This may be one of the clearest signs we have of progress.

Or, maybe this isn’t what you’re asking about at all?

Are you returning to the discussion of a flow state? In which case, I would ask, are “effort” and “flow” incompatible?

Or am I conflating “effort” with “exertion/strain” in a way that is different from what you’re thinking about?

lilypad

ranjit

pianoloverus I think the answer is quite easy and basic. If you love the pieces you are trying to learn, then the motivation and effort is automatic.

That would be the first thing.

I also think a spirit of curiosity is a great mindset. Being curious about how which of the various processes I'll use to play the pieces the way I'd like them to sound. What things can I think of to overcome each obstacle as I encounter it.

keystring

ranjit I've been asking myself the following question: Rather than how much effort you can put in at the piano, what kind of mindset/mental state should you be in from which that effort would automatically flow as an effect?

I'm actually stuck on the first part of your question. I've never thought of "effort" in that (or any context). Before considering an alternative to "effort", can you define how you see "effort at the piano"?

ShiroKuro

ranjit Number of hours, number of tasks completed, quality of focus and memory retention, etc.

Hmm this is interesting because I was thinking of effort as more like degree of exertion… in order words, how hard something feels. Not that I think exertion is the better way to think about it, but that’s just what was triggered in my brain.

Number of hours, number of tasks completed

These two are quantifiable, easily measured. And maybe also easily controlled or replicated.

quality of focus and memory retention

Whereas these two are not so easily measured or controlled.

But the ingesting thing is that both are needed.

ranjit Rather than how much effort you can put in at the piano, what kind of mindset/mental state should you be in from which that effort would automatically flow as an effect?

So back to your original question…. I think the mindset maybe is about discipline as @TC3 said, or motivation. Well and then also not being exhausted when I sit down to practice.

For me, usually if I can get myself to the piano, I can practice for a good hour and get a lot done. But all this week (just for example), I have been super busy at work and getting home much later. On Tuesday night I “practiced” for about 15 minutes starting at 10pm, and last night I practice for about r0 minutes, starting at 9pm. Both times, I was just so tired, I really couldn’t do much (although yesterday was a little better). I’m sitting here now (it’s 6am) thinking how great it would be if I could practice right now, but my husband is still asleep.

So mental state definitely includes motivation and discipline, but I have both of those already. The other element I absolutely need is to not be so tired that I’m exhausted before I even start practice.

Sorry, I feel like that’s not what you’re talking about @ranjit 😅

TC3

I would characterize that as "enthusiastic discipline." 🙂

How one gets that consistently is something I'm still working on ...

Animisha

For me, flow happens by grace, and all I can do is to create the right conditions so it can come: practising in a focused way, but not tense.

TC3

Interesting responses so far. I did not think of @ranjit 's use of "flow" as referring to a "flow state" but @ShiroKuro 's response certainly has me thinking about it.

To me, "flow state" means something like the Daoist concept of wu-wei, a kind of highly skilled and seemingly effortless action that comes from practice and experience, much like when we refer to an athlete as being "in the zone." I wouldn't say I'm in that state during a lot of my practice, at least not until things really start coming together, at which I start to dip into it, at least for smaller sections at a time. I do aim for that during performances, for which I am practicing when I practice, of course!

pianoloverus

I think the answer is quite easy and basic. If you love the pieces you are trying to learn, then the motivation and effort is automatic.

ranjit

keystring Number of hours, number of tasks completed, quality of focus and memory retention, etc.

pianoloverus

ranjit Number of hours, number of tasks completed, quality of focus and memory retention, etc.

Number of tasks completed is not a good or at least not a clear measure of effort because one could put forth a great effort and not even complete even one task depending on the idea of what a task is. If a task is something like play a passage five times then it could be a measure of effort to some degree but if the task is to master the same passage, then one might not complete it even with great effort. And what if the "task" is to play the passage 10 times? Does one get half as much credit for playing it the same as 5 times? A similar problem exists for memory retention. One could make a great effort to memorize a passage but not succeed.

thepianoplayer416

For me music is stress relief. At my age playing music is also brain exercise to delay the onset of dementia.

I know some people tried piano or violin and quit soon after. They treated music as technical exercises and didn't have fun. Playing music is a hobby, something that is fun like experimenting in sound production. In the beginning, we struggle reading notes, playing the right beats, etc. After a while, learning the notes become less of a problem so we focus more on dynamics, phrasing & things that would make a piece sound better.

I belong to a music group. The past few months I've been splitting my time between learning piano and violin with a strings ensemble. The effort would be preparing for a performance somewhere for an audience. Next week our music group is in concert at a public school.