What Bach should I play?

ShiroKuro

@KevinM ’s post about finding a simple Bach piece inspired me…

In my piano class, I’m supposed to work on at least different genres. Last semester, I worked on a Bach Invention for one, but it was challenging enough that I didn’t finish/polish it — with the permission off teacher, who thought it was appropriate to focus on pieces that I would be recording and/or performing, and I generally only do that with contemporary pieces.

I think the Inventions are at the outside of my playing ability when it comes to Bach, not impossible but only do-able with the kind of focused practice and time that would take away from the core repertoire I pursue.

So, it seems to me that it would make sense to work on several much easier pieces by Bach as a way to work up to Inventions so that I can get to the point where I don’t have to put aside all my other pieces just to get an invention to a reasonable tempo.

I have these three books:

I have played some of the pieces before but it’s been years.

In the absence of other information, I would assume it makes sense to star with the “Dances” book, since it does say “pieces to play before the inventions.”

Or, maybe if the pieces in the other books are much easier, perhaps it could be good to start there and work through those quickly? I wonder if I could do one a week for the first half of the semester…

Maybe I’ll play one of the dances today and see how challenging it feels.

Any advice and opinions would be appreciated.
TIA!

hebele

ShiroKuro I am pretty sure you are better at judging those books. I just wanted to say that I only have "An introduction to his keyboard music" one and I like it very much. I wish I had this book when I tried to tackle Minuet in G last year. It would've cut some of unnecessary pain 🙂.

The book itself is trying to do what the title says. The pieces are ordered by difficulty. But it does not omit any ornaments. So some of the popular "first Bach pieces" are in middle of the book. It also explains what ornaments are and how they were supposed to be played. I remember the discussion in this forum about those ornaments. In my mind, the book puts an end to that.

It feels whole point of the book is getting student ready to play the Inventions. The very last piece is "An introduction to Bach's Inventions" which ends with the 1st Invention. It has a little description of what an Invention is and why they were composed.

ShiroKuro

BTW since @KevinM posted the link the Children’s Bach book, I certainly could play some of those as well…

keff

My piano learner friend has the Anna Magdalena book and it contains some lovely and approachable pieces. However, as pointed out in the other thread, they are not all by JSB. I vowed to purchase this book too but haven't got around to it up to now.

ShiroKuro

keff Anna Magdalena book

I thought I had this actual collection but either I don't, or it got separated from my other Bach books... I'll have to look again.

However, as pointed out in the other thread, they are not all by JSB.

That's ok with me. As long as they have pedagogical benefit (which I'm sure they do). They'll meet the genre requirement regardless of the composer.

KevinM

I think the fourth two part Invention BWV 775 is one you could take a look at.

ShiroKuro

KevinM fourth two part Invention BWV 775

That's the one I worked on during fall semester. For this purpose, I'm looking for easier pieces, that I can spend a minimal amount of time on during each practice session and polish up quickly and then move on.

Inventions require more attention and time for my current level. (I play contemporary music at a higher level than I do classical)

KevinM

This is simpler than any invention, but also not trivial.

Bach French Suite No.3 Menuet.

https://musescore.com/user/36217438/scores/6378030

ShiroKuro

KevinM ooh, thanks for this recommendation! Also, that looks to be about just the right difficulty level I’m aiming for with the Bach pieces.

pianoloverus

followed by

I heard Ann Schein play these two together as an encore in a recital at Mannes many years ago.

ShiroKuro

pianoloverus I've played that Gavotte before. It's been a while though!

Pianoanne

I think many of the short pieces from the Anna Magdalena Bach notebook are a good place to start, and then from there move onto the Little Preludes, these are kind of a middle step between the notebook pieces and the 2 part inventions. The C Major BWV 939 is the first Little Prelude I teach after assigning several of the short pieces from the Notebook. I think all the pieces are great, it’ll be fun to give them a try.

ShiroKuro

Pianoanne thanks!

I need to decide if these are the books to use… I’m not sure that they are a standard collection of pieces (e.g., if I buy the AM Notebook, that will have all the expected pieces in it). Also the Palmer editions all have those fingerings and ornaments written in very light gray, which is actually kind of annoying… 😅

pianoloverus

ShiroKuro Also the Palmer editions all have those fingerings and ornaments written in very light gray, which is actually kind of annoying…

I think for the majority of people good fingering and ornaments written out would be extremely helpful.

BartK

ShiroKuro I’m not sure that they are a standard collection of pieces (e.g., if I buy the AM Notebook, that will have all the expected pieces in it).

With the AMBN it's a bit more complicated. See, there were in fact two different notebooks - one from 1722 and another from 1725. The second one is the one that contains most of the pieces that people are familiar with. However, the full notebook contains many pieces that are very challenging, such as some full partitas and french suites, and also other pieces like the aria from the Goldberg variations and several other arias (Anna Magdalena Bach was a professional soprano). When people refer to "pieces from the AMBN" they usually mean an indefinite list of the short easy dance pieces from both notebooks, and that's usually what you get when you buy any non-urtext edition. There will probably be a lot of overlap between editions but unfortunately I don't think there is a standard list of those pieces.

KevinM

I should have mentioned, I'm learning BWV 927 which @Greta99 has done a lovely recording of.

ShiroKuro

pianoloverus I think for the majority of people good fingering and ornaments written out would be extremely helpful.

They would be more appreciated if they were printed in black, or at least a darker color. I can barely see them! Also, when I was working on Invention #4, my teacher didn't like the annotations and I ended up switching to a different score. And years ago, when I first learned several Inventions, I had a Japanese score book that had no annotations. Of course I was working with a teacher then as well, so we worked out the details during the lessons.

For these pieces, they're much easier so it shouldn't be an issue. We'll see.

BartK I didn't know all that background. That's super helpful, and interesting, thank you!

LifelongBeginner It's tempting to want to go for for more advanced and less "piano studenty" pieces

These won't be my main pieces, so for any Bach I play, I'm actually wanting to go for easier scores.

LifelongBeginner And if you're interested in improvisation those runs might be fun to toss into a contemporary piece

Ooh that sounds like fun!

LifelongBeginner

Let us know which you pick. When I attempted my first Invention, I too aborted for something easier and quicker to learn 🙂 I'd done a couple from AMBN but probably should have taken on a Little Prelude next. Then some Inventions. Then some day I'll get to something from Well Tempered Clavier.

It's tempting to want to go for for more advanced and less "piano studenty" pieces but AMBN has some fun ones. I still enjoy Musette (those jumps get sloppy if I don't dust the piece off once in a while)! I think Little Prelude 1 (924) might be a fun one. The beginning is pretty easy but toward the end that cadenza is fun at a decent tempo. And if you're interested in improvisation those runs might be fun to toss into a contemporary piece 🙂

pianosearcher

The J.S. Bach Introduction to his Keyboard Music that you already have is a decent place to start.

Two other good books that I suggest (and use) are:

First Lessons in Bach for the Piano, Schirmer/Carroll. Personally, I like this better than the J.S. Bach Intro book
Bach Album of Twenty-One Favorite Pieces for the Piano, Schirmer/Heinze. Although it's rated Intermediate there is a good range of difficulty across the pieces

Regarding the Two Part Inventions, I suggest trying Invention #14 - that's the one my teacher recommended above all the others as a first try. Don't play it fast. Invention #1 (first version) and #13 are also decent starter pieces but more challenging than #14. I wouldn't have approached #4 this early.

BartK

I played all the two-part inventions. IMHO, no. 1 in C major is the only logical one to start with. It has the fewest technical difficulties and is also the most straightforward to hear and bring out the two voices. I am convinced that it was Bach's pedagogical intention to use this one as a starting point.

No. 13 in A minor can be tricky due to fingering. No. 14 in B-flat is not too bad but not my first choice.

Other easy ones:
no. 4 in D minor
no. 8 in F major

The most challenging ones are:
no. 12 in A major - a lively gigue
no. 2 in C minor - a rather dense two-part fugue, more complicated than the rest