Top 10 Most Difficult Piano Pieces - Lord Vinheteiro

Nightowl

I recently watched an interesting video by Lord Vinheteiro, where he played extracts from his "Top 10 Most Difficult Pieces"; link attached:
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This man's playing is incredible, and it's interesting to note that when playing these pieces he does not do his trade mark habit of staring into the camera because he has to actually look at the keys and concentrate - that's how hard these pieces are!

Here's the list:

Heroic Polonaise - Chopin
Grande Polonaise Brillant - Chopin
Sonata for 2 Pianos - W Mozart
Etude Op. 25 No. 11 Winter Wind - Chopin
Revolutionary Etude - Chopin
Moonlight Sonata 3rd Movement - Beethoven
Fantaisi Impromptu - Chopin
Flight Of The Bumblebee - Rimski-Korsakow
Hungarian Rhapsody No. 2 - Liszt
Campanella - Liszt

5 of the pieces are by Chopin, which pleased me as I love those pieces, although the video confirms my feeling that most of his work will probably lay far beyond my skill level for years forever. The Flight Of The Bumble Bee is also in the top 10, a piece that I can't abide listening to - it makes me feel ill! (But it does capture how annoying a fast moving bee can be when you're trying to remove it from your home!)

What do you think of his choices? Are there other pieces that you would include on the list? I'd love to hear from anyone who has played these pieces (and if so, how long they took you to master). Anyway, for me this video is an inspiration.

HeartKeys

I think some on this list [Lord V] are "pieces that sound difficult or impressive" but not necessarily most difficult.

The video below comes to mind to me, as far as difficult, as far as doing an interpretation well. That said, "Most Difficult" can certainly be subjective.

As for me, I can't play any of these, so I'd say they're all difficult! [though I can play most of them, in skeletal format, by ear. But I can't actually play-play them]

Nightowl

HeartKeys Thanks, that video was very interesting and I like the way the pianist explained the rationale for how she chose to rank the pieces. Of course it's all subjective and from the viewpoint of a beginner most of those pieces seem very difficult.

Simonb

Hi Nightowl

I agree with Heartkeys, some of these sound more difficult than they actually are.

As examples Chopin's Revolutionary Etude, and Liszt's Hungarian Rhapsody are both currently included in Trinity's mid level LTCL diploma repertoire (FTCL being their highest level diploma).

Of course it's all relative. For most of us they are incredibly difficult, and I'd be chuffed to be able to play any of them

Cheers

Nightowl

Simonb Your post seems to imply that those two pieces in the mid level diploma might "sound more difficult than they actually are", because otherwise they would be in the highest diploma repertoire. However, many pianists would find grade 8 pieces very hard and diploma territory seems like another realm, inhabited by only the most elite players. It's all relative, but you seem to forget that your playing level is far beyond that of the majority of hobby pianists, I don't know the stats but you're in that upper stratum where most pianists will never go.

pianoloverus Your scathing appraisal of the video seems rather unwarranted. Perhaps the pieces were chosen as crowd pleasers, as the description mentions them being both difficult and "beautiful", and this pianist makes money from his YT channel so he chose well known pieces to appeal to a wide audience. I'm just a beginner (pleb) so I have no idea how technically good (or otherwise) his playing is. I believe you are a piano professor, so you are in a position to judge his playing, but consider this - this man has produced a huge number of videos covering hundreds of pieces, so he can't possibly retain them all in his memory when he records them. These difficult pieces can't be played at the required tempo by sight reading, so it must take a lot of work to bring them up to the level he plays them. Taking all that into account I think his playing is great, maybe not virtuoso level, but then he's not performing in a concert.

pianoloverus

Sorry, but that video is pure nonsense. No person really familiar with the piano repertoire would choose virtually any of those pieces as the most difficult ones. He generally plays the easy parts of the pieces. Most importantly, his playing is really, really terrible from a technical and musical standpoint. I strongly doubt any decent conservatory would accept him into their undergraduate program.

Sophia

rsl12 The selection of pieces would make sense if title was "Top 10 Most Popular Difficult Pieces".

Right!!! That was a super fun video, but I kept thinking gosh every single piece he's playing is so very well known... surely there must be some obscure piece that are harder to play. I'm glad he didn't do that eery stare of his though, at least I could watch without getting distracted (and scared) 😄

pianoloverus Most importantly, his playing is really, really terrible

If my playing could be that really, really terrible, I'd sign up for that today

pianoloverus

Nightowl Your scathing appraisal of the video screams rather unwarranted. Perhaps the pieces were chosen as crowd pleasers, as the description mentions them being both difficult and "beautiful", and this pianist makes money from his YT channel so he chose well known pieces to appeal to a wide audience. I'm just a beginner (pleb) so I have no idea how technically good (or otherwise) his playing is. I believe you are a piano professor, so you are in a position to judge his playing, but consider this - this man has produced a huge number of videos covering hundreds of pieces, so he can't possibly retain them all in his memory when he records them. These difficult pieces can't be played at the required tempo by sight reading, so it must take a lot of work to bring them up to the level he plays them. Taking all that into account I think his playing is great, maybe not virtuoso level, but then he's not performing in a concert.

He probably chose well known pieces to appeal to a wide audience but that doesn't change fact that they are not the 10 most difficult pieces or even close to that and that he generally chose some easy section of the piece to play. I am not a piano teacher but am certainly able to judge his playing better than a beginner. I can assure you that no serious professional pianist or teacher would say his playing is good. Whether it took him a lot of work play the little snippets of each piece at the level he plays them doesn't change the fact they are played poorly and are not the supremely difficult pieces he claims.

Simonb

Hi Nightowl

There were supposed to be 2 strands to my reply, which I probably didn't word very well.

agreeing with Heartkeys, that the pieces look flashy and therefore are perceived as being more difficult than they actually are.
The fact that pieces aren't in Trinity's highest level diploma list is evidence that they aren't the "10 Most Difficult Piano Pieces" (as per the title of the video).

In fact Trinity's highest level diploma list has 128 pieces on it.

Thank you for your kind words. My playing is what it is, and for having played for 55 years, it's probably not that good; relatively speaking!

You're correct it's only a very small percentage that reach diploma level, and it's an even smaller percentage that reach the highest level. And yes it's all relative, but it's the video's title claim that these are the 10 most difficult Piano Pieces that's in question here.

And the straightforward answer is, they aren't. That sadly is the nature of YouTube videos - it's click bait. Perhaps he'd have better titled it as "My 10 most difficult pieces".

Cheers

rsl12

Nightowl Perhaps the pieces were chosen as crowd pleasers, as the description mentions them being both difficult and "beautiful", and this pianist makes money from his YT channel so he chose well known pieces to appeal to a wide audience.

I think this is probably right. The selection of pieces would make sense if title was "Top 10 Most Popular Difficult Pieces". Without the word "Popular" it's more than a little misleading, and there are people in the YouTube comments who seem to think these are his choices for Top 10 Most Difficult Pieces. I doubt, at his level of piano playing, he really thinks these are the top 10 most difficult.

ShiroKuro

Nightowl [pianoloverus's] scathing appraisal of the video screams rather unwarranted.

I agree. Lord Vinheteiro makes fun videos, and there's nothing wrong with that. Besides, whether anyone agrees with any particular list, we can't deny that it's quite successful at generating discussion! 🙂

Nightowl

Simonb I wondered about the stats for USA students passing music diplomas each year. A quick online search resulted in this AI response:

"There are no readily available statistics for the total number of students taking piano diplomas each year in the USA, as "diploma" can refer to various professional certifications or academic degrees, making it difficult to track consistently. However, data from 2022 shows that 1,440 doctoral degrees in music were awarded in the US, with a large portion of those being in music performance. "

The population of the USA was around 333 million in 2022, so 1,440 equates to about 0.00043% of the USA population in that year. I'd say that's pretty elite. Looking at Lord V's details on Wiki, he played piano from the age of 8 and attended the Arts Institute of Sao Paulo University. He dropped out of his music course and trained to become a vet instead, but later chose to pursue a music career anyway. So, he is not an elite pianist, but he seems very skilled nonetheless.

Nightowl

rsl12 I agree that including the word "Popular" in the title would be better. I can also understand why people don't agree that these are truly the top 10 most difficult pieces. But I will never agree with the statement that his playing is "really terrible" (maybe because it's not, but I'm just a BB so I'll leave this to others better qualified to discuss such things).

Nightowl

ShiroKuro Yes, some of his videos are very amusing. Perhaps he doesn't play at virtuoso level but he's entertained millions with his work. I also enjoy watching the Italian pianist Francesco Parrino, who plays his own arrangements of a wide variety of modern pieces. He is more of a serious pianist (as well as being extremely handsome). YT provides better entertainment than most mainstream media channels these days.

Nightowl

Sophia If my playing could be that really, really terrible, I'd sign up for that today

Me too!

rsl12 Maybe he was trying to do both of those things. Judging by the likes on the video and the discussion here he has achieved both those things. Clever man. 🙂

WieWaldi

Nightowl

Sophia If my playing could be that really, really terrible, I'd sign up for that today

Me too!

Me three!

rsl12

Nightowl But I will never agree with the statement that his playing is "really terrible"

Well, I would never judge his playing ability just on that one video. He didn't try to get any of the pieces to a performance standard. He's just trying to demonstrate how difficult the pieces are, and I suspect he's purposely being gentle with the pedal so that the listener can better appreciate all the tricks the fingers are doing. And of course his job is to produce enough Youtube content to make a living, so he probably didn't spend more than a couple days getting those snippets ready for the video. Judging him compared to even an amateur who has spent months learning La Campanella is unfair. He's not trying to move you... If we are cynical, we can say his goal is to maximize the number of hits on his video, and if we are not cynical we can say he is trying to produce an entertaining video that provokes a little fun discussion and thought.

pianoloverus

Nightowl Yes, some of his videos are very amusing. Perhaps he doesn't play at virtuoso level but he's entertained millions with his work.

Some may find his videos entertaining, but that's not what my post is about. His choice of pieces is all wrong , he plays some easy snippets from each piece , and those snippets are filled with technical and musical errors . He positively does not play at a virtuoso level or anything approaching that degree of skill. So it's not "perhaps".

Simonb

Hi Nightowl

I don't know how a doctoral degree would compare to a music diploma, but my suspicion is that it's probably equivalent to the highest diploma standard over here in the UK. Maybe even higher. As you say very elite.

We agree!

Cheers

pianoloverus

Nightowl So, he is not an elite pianist, but he seems very skilled nonetheless.

That depends on your definition of "very skilled". To a beginner or low intermediate he might seem skilled but I can assure you that the overwhelming majority of qualified teachers would agree with my assessment of his playing. Your analysis using the AI statistics seems wrong because those were people who received doctorates. Lord V Dropped out to become a vet and did not even receive a bachelor's degree in piano performance no less a doctorate.

Jane

Clickbait candy, certainly.

One can't compare the Revolutionary etude with etude op. 10, no. 2 ... as just one example.
Or how about Islamey?
Or Chopin's 4th Ballade?
Or Godowsky's revisions of the Chopin etudes?
Or Gaspard?
Or the Schumann Toccata?
Or some of the Scriabin sonatas?
Or the Hammerklavier?
Or....

Edited to add another list...

Simonb

Hi Jane

Thanks for sharing that video. I recently bought a recording of Marc-Andre Hamelin playing Haydn sonatas to help me with one I'm learning. It was really interesting to hear him talk about those incredibly difficult pieces.

Cheers

Ornstein

Respect for the Grande polonaise brillante being included, that actually is in the top 3 of most difficult Chopin pieces outside the sonatas. It's kind of interesting he made the list of usual meme pieces for the casual audience but he snuck in an approaching-legit non-casual choice.

I don't think he's too bad but it's clear he's not at the Stravinsky or Reminiscences of Don Juan sort of level of technique so it'd probably ruin his video idea to not be able to include footage of the crazy spots. But I do respect he didn't cherry pick specific excerpts to portray that he is able to play them, if he can't.

pianoloverus

Simonb I don't know how a doctoral degree would compare to a music diploma, but my suspicion is that it's probably equivalent to the highest diploma standard over here in the UK. Maybe even higher. As you say very elite.

We agree!

But since Lord V did not receive a doctoral degree and, in fact ,did not even receive a bachelor's degree in music performance, I don't see why this is relevant in discussing his skill.

Nightowl

Simonb Yes, and one day you will move into that elite group - something to be very proud of. 🙂 However, you already play brilliantly, which proves that even somebody who does not hold a doctoral degree or music diploma can play at an advanced level (like Lord V does, IMHO).