Fingering question (yet again)

WieWaldi

I am learning another Blues for the upcoming recital and on bar looks like this, starting with finger 5 on E:

The author of the sheet music tells me to play B_b with finger 4.
In my opinion, the only way to play this sequence would be this fingering
5 4 3 2 3 1 2 (Option 1)
and the move from 5 to 4 feels a bit big; or error prone.

If there were no fingering from the author, I would go by my own with another fingering, using the 2-finger very comfy for B_b (hand is relaxed, no stretch) and doing later a finger oversetting at G.
5 2 1 2 3 1 2 (Option 2)

I tried both options for a little bit, can play both, feeling Option 2 is more fluid, but also more complicated (But I did a lot of similar fingering in the past and it worked so far):

Which one would you prefer, and why?
Am I overthinking my fingering with Option 2? (Because the author of the sheet music has way more experience and his fingering is standard?)

TC3

Before reading the two options, I was already thinking something like option 2.

iternabe

My hand is so small option 1 is impossible.
Option 2 feels fine to me.
Another option: 5 3 2 1 3 1 2

twocats

iternabe Another option: 5 3 2 1 3 1 2

This would be my pick!

WieWaldi

iternabe Well, I haven't thought about that. It is appealing, indeed.
It just happened, I wanted to avoid the 5 to 4 jump. And for my first alternative, it happened that the 2-finger was just at B_b with a relaxed hand, so I continued how this fingering could continue.
I must admit, this option feels good from the beginning.
I would go for your approach over mine own.

Basically, I think only option 1 and option 3 are the only candidates to go, now.

Seeker

iternabe Another option: 5 3 2 1 3 1 2

That would be my first choice too.

rsl12

Some things to think about, most of which you probably know:

Fingering is largely personal preference, so if you found a more comfortable fingering, then great! But...
Keep in mind that what's comfortable when played slowly may not be comfortable when played quickly. Finally...
Classical fingering is sometimes different than fingering for improv styles because when you do improvisation, it's easier to remember specific regions for your hand to reside (for this example, ring finger on the "blue" note, giving you the possibility of slurring up to the major 3rd with your pinky, or grace-note striking the minor then major third with your ring finger, freeing up your pinky for the 5th). When you do crossovers with your fingers, it takes more concentration to remember where the keys are in relation to your hand. If the goal is to simply to be able to regurgitate this exact phrase whenever you want, then the most comfortable fingering makes sense. But if the goal is to be able to improvise not only this phrase but similar phrases as well, you may be better off with the written fingering. The written fingering will force you to make a jump, but that's a sacrifice we make when we improvise!

WieWaldi

rsl12 Luckily, this Blues is played slow. No need to be quick with my hands. In my fingering, I use a lot of crossovers (in general). And every time it takes a while to get it into my muscle memory. The editors option (1) needs one small jump, and the rest is stupid simple (1:1 finger-key connection). The "stupid simple" part is the one thing I like about it.
Option 3 is a hand closing/opening thing, no finger crossing, but the hand walks on the keyboard. This is better than Option 2, because getting rid of finger crossing. Still, I have to manage to use different fingers for same key, and same finger for different keys. Which needs for sure a bit more concentration than the "stupid simple" part of Option 1. (Or more muscle memory training).

I think I will practice the other parts of the blues and try Option 1+3 randomly and decide what to use. Or maybe other forum members have other reasons for one of both options. This is why we have a forum.

Sophia

Just from looking at your fingers, option 2 seems to suit you better. The first one looks very unnatural to my eyes…

pianoloverus

You are definitely not overthinking this because fingering very important. IF you want to connect the E and B flat then putting 4 on the B flat is extremely awkward or impossible unless you have a gigantic hand or use the pedal. Your fingering with two the B flat is fine or you might consider putting three on the B flat and two on the A natural etc. If you can comfortably put 3 on B flat you don't have to do a crossover. But crossovers are not something to be avoided unless there is a simpler choice that can still correct play the passage.

If the eighths are played at swing eighths, then it might sound reasonable to play the E and B flat non legato and use editor's fingering.

PianogrlNW

Every hand is different, but I would play the Bb with a 3 instead of a 2. If you move your hand toward the fallboard for the E and Bb it should be comfortable. So the sequence would be 5321, 312. That way you avoid crossing your 2 over the thumb. So basically, I agree with Iternabe.

MRC

One thing is missing in the example: what comes just before?

PianogrlNW

MRC Also, what notes come after.

WieWaldi

MRC what comes just before?

The red numbers are, what I play very naturally without further thinking.

PianogrlNW Also, what notes come after.

The last note is held for a half duration, then there is a rest and I have time to reposition my hand to reach E4 (near middle C) Anyway, it seems like all options end with 3 1 2, so it really doesn't matter:
5 4 3 2 3 1 2 (Option 1)
5 2 1 2 3 1 2 (Option 2)
5 3 2 1 3 1 2 (Option 3/iternabe)

pianoloverus

WieWaldi All these fingering choices are fine. It's just a matter of personal preference.

twocats

WieWaldi I think I will practice the other parts of the blues and try Option 1+3 randomly and decide what to use. Or maybe other forum members have other reasons for one of both options.

I don't have a problem playing Option 1 (should rotate your wrist toward the left when going to 4 to make it easier) but if it's uncomfortable for you, I think that's a good reason to choose Option 3, which is a good exercise if it requires more concentration!

thepianoplayer416

The way you play the first 2 notes high E to Bb if you use 5 & 4 you're leaving a gap (rest) in between. I have small hands so wouldn't be able to go from 5 to 4 without leaving a gap. Option 2 works better for you.

Getting from 1 note to the next without leaving a gap should be the first consideration. Here the problem is the fingering for the first 2 notes E & Bb. Try holding the E down with 5 and see if you can touch the Bb with 1 of the remaining fingers. For me 4 is out leaving 1, 2 or 3. The fingering I'm comfortable with is: 5-3-2-1-3-1-2. I'm ok with option 2 as well.

The other consideration is you can repeat the same fingering many times comfortably without having to think about it.

pianoloverus

thepianoplayer416 The way you play the first 2 notes high E to Bb if you use 5 & 4 you're leaving a gap (rest) in between. I have small hands so wouldn't be able to go from 5 to 4 without leaving a gap. Option 2 works better for you.

Leaving a gap is OK if one cannot connect them with the 54 fingering. Or just use the pedal to cover the gap if one wants to.

thepianoplayer416

pianoloverus
According to Robert Estrin, we’d start without pedal and learn to connect notes as much as possible unless it’s the end of a phrase. Use pedal when necessary with a big jump. If you can connect notes more easily with another fingering make the change before considering using pedal.

Recently watched an online video by a teacher who graduated from a university in Canada. She opened the RCM repertoire book to Beethoven Sonatina in G. On top of some of the notes are finger numbers. She said that it’s important for students to follow the numbers because they’re tested and they work. Numbers on sheet music are for reference. It’s the starting point not taking into consideration of big or small hands. We’d find the best fingering for our hands.

Today it’s common for people to input sheet music into a notation program. Not sure if some people actually play the pieces they they compiled. I found pieces online some bars don’t add up to the total beats indicated in the time signature.

pianoloverus

thepianoplayer416 According to Robert Estrin, we’d start without pedal and learn to connect notes as much as possible unless it’s the end of a phrase. Use pedal when necessary with a big jump. If you can connect notes more easily with another fingering make the change before considering using pedal

Estrin is discussing how a beginner might learn a passage that's marked legato. There is no phrase marking over the passage in question so there is no need to play the passage legato. That would be a matter of choice. So what Estrin said does not apply to this passage.
I never said one couldn't use a different fingering to connect the E and B flat more easily. In fact, I suggested some other fingerings. What I did say was that if one wants to stick with the 54 suggestion in the score and one wanted to connect those notes, one could use the pedal to help with this. This is 100% reasonable.