the utter frustration of using a VST

navindra

Today I moved my digital piano to a different room and I thought it wasn't sounding so great in the new spot.

What better time than to try a virtual piano? I don't really like PCs next to my piano, but I will tolerate a tablet.

Connecting my piano to the iPad Pro involved:

Hooking up a USB hub to my iPad. I didn't have a working USB-C hub, so I grabbed a USB-A hub and plugged it in to a USB-C adapter to the iPad.
Hooking up a USB-B to USB-A cable from the hub to the piano.
Hooking up a USB-C to 3.5 mm (with USB-C to USB-A adapter) to the hub.
Hooking up a 3.5 mm cable from the iPad to the piano. This makes a aggravating noise if it's not fully connected.
Turning off local control on the piano.
Failing to hook up the iPad to power (via Magic Keyboard port) because the cable doesn't reach.

With this arrangement, the VIs "just" work!

However, I have an utter mess of cables, and reaching for my iPad (which is placed precariously on a suitcase) to do anything else is exhausting. As soon as I disconnect my iPad, the piano makes an interference noise. My charging cable doesn't reach. I feel like I've macgyvered the heck out of this. Ugh.

How about the results then?

GarageBand sounds like GarbageBand 🗑️, Ivory sounds like a dead elephant 🐘; seriously, they both sound and feel like toy pianos. Pianoteq is as good as I remember it, there's a lot of piano here, maybe even a bit too much in the high freqs, but there's no doubt that it's super-responsive and sounds excellent.

However, the end result is that this setup is too frustrating and I feel mentally exhausted by managing this whole mess along with my piano. I've disconnected it all and decided I'm happy with the onboard sounds afterall.

I've heard that the VSTs are going to go on sale soon and I just cannot imagine how I could possibly live with a full PC hooked up to my piano. I feel exhausted even just imagining this setup.

On the other hand, I know a lot of people and amazing pianists use VSTs, and full respect for that. How do you all do it?

iternabe

I hear you. Initial setup can often be messy. What makes it better for me is I alway try to make the setup permanent, and with as few barrier as possible for daily use.

Some example of what helps in my current setup:

Get the smallest computer (M4 Mac mini)
Automate as much as possible with smart devices (and Home Assistant)
-- Power to DP is controlled by a single button remote + smart power plug
-- Room lights turn on/off by the same remote
-- Computer wake up by one tap on the keyboard (login automatically by Apple Watch)
-- Pianoteq alway running (no need to launch)
-- Recording software and timer launched and started by single button click on the Elgato Stream Deck
All accessories (cameras, microphones, etc) are permanently mounted
Use wire management tools to make the setup as clean as possible

As of now, I can walk up to my DP, press on three dedicated buttons, and be ready to play and record.

iternabe

Elgato Stream Deck is such a great tool to make interacting with the computer much more practical when playing piano. Anything that can be achieved with keyboard shortcuts, it can be programmed as a dedicated button. Some apps (OBS, Toggl, etc.) even have API that can be hooked up to Elgato software. It gets even better, you can program a sequence of commands to a single button, to perform multiple tasks.

Here is the main screen on my Stream Deck, to give you some ideas.

navindra

iternabe Elgato Stream Deck is such a great tool to make interacting with the computer much more practical when playing piano.

Wow! On top of everything you mentioned in your two posts, that is simply an amazing application of the Stream Deck.

Now I'm super-impressed at your setup. You basically made the computer disappear from the equation and with Stream Deck it's all push button. I have to admit, I didn't even imagine this.

Really, really nice!

hebele

I have an old surfacebook that stays on the music rest most of the time. It is not very powerful. But enough to run reaper, pianoteq and a few other VSTs. It is connected to a usb hub with a single usb c cable (for data & power). I am fine with that. However there is still a small bundle of cables/devices beside the piano; usb hub, DAC, midi device for pedal and power. I've shoved them in a box but still bothers me a little. I'd like to simplify that when upgrading.

HeartKeys

Yes it takes lots of messing around at first, for sure!

For a portable setup, I did it this way:

https://forum.pianotell.com/d/1057-my-traveling-practice-keyboard-setup

Overall it’s pretty simplistic setup and uses the least cords. It’s a really good hub.

mciti19

I think I've seen that you have an NV10. I have an NV5 so it's going to be a similar situation.

I normally use my Macbook to run Pianoteq, which is portable enough and simpler because I just have to:

Turn on the piano
Establish a Bluetooth connection
Hook up a 3.5mm aux cable from laptop to piano (actually I do this BEFORE turning on the piano, to avoid interference noise)

Local control is always turned off for me. There's a setting on the NV5 where you can have it "remember the last setting" you used before you turned it off, every time.

The iPad setup that I used to do is only a little more complex. Instead of aux-to-aux cable, I have to plug in an aux-to-usb-c adapter onto one end of the aux cable. I don't like the sound as much coming from the ipad, though, as I like it on my Macbook. I think the DAC builtin to the usc-c adapter is not as good as in the native Macbook hardware.

I don't follow why you have so many cables but I bet you could simplify somehow.

navindra

mciti19 I think I've seen that you have an NV10.

This month I'm in Mauritius where I have a Casio Privia Slim PX-S3000 as my only piano.

On my NV10, I actually had an Raspberry Pi setup for running Pianoteq which worked very well. This was well before the iOS version became available. I haven't used the NV10 in a long time though because the acoustic pianos get all of the playtime. I honestly need to sell it.

TheBoringPianist

I admittedly haven't spent too much time researching this yet, but is there any way to use virtual instruments with my digital (hybrid) such that I don't need to use another set of speakers (e.g. I can hear myself playing in real time with virtual instrument sounds from my digital piano speakers, and can also record the virtual instrument sound from computer/iPad or e.g. stream it on FB/YouTube)?

danno858

TheBoringPianist the short answer isyes. But it depends on your digital piano. I have a Yamaha P515 and it works beautifully. What kind do you have?

TheBoringPianist

danno858 But it depends on your digital piano. I have a Yamaha P515 and it works beautifully. What kind do you have?

I have a P515 too, although it's in the closet awaiting repairs (one of the keys constantly triggers full volume) lol.

Main practice piano that I'd want to figure out VSTs for is a Yamaha AvantGrand N2.

danno858

TheBoringPianist yes it should be easy for that piano. I had to play mine for 7 months while I was waiting for my piano to rebuilt. Now it’s tucked against the wall and I can’t easily access it. I had to move it there temporarily because one my cats wants to use it as a spring board to get on top of a book case.

Jane

TheBoringPianist Yamaha AvantGrand N2

I have an N3 (the old one, 5-pin DIN connectors for MIDI rather than USB that came in the N3x). The old N3 is structurally very similar to the N2.

I posted a pic of my setup a year or so ago: https://forum.pianotell.com/d/685-post-pictures-of-your-pianos-here/41

To the right of the piano you'll see a small black cabinet with the drawer extended. That laptop runs my VSTs.
In the bottom part of the cabinet (along with miscellaneous storage) is a Focusrite Scarlett 4i4.

I used the 4i4 because it handles 5-pin DIN MIDI connections, so I didn't need a separate DIN to USB adapter.

Inside the cabinet, the Scarlett's USB port connects to a USB port on the laptop.
The DIN MIDI connectors on the Scarlett run to the connectors on the N3. (I ran both ways, even though I only wind up using MIDI from piano to Scarlett.)

I have 1/4-inch connector audio cables running from the outputs on the Scarlett to the 1/4-inch Aux In connectors on the N3. (I have cables running the other way, also, for when I wanted to record the N3's sound... but that's not germane to this discussion.)

To play the N3 normally, I just turn it on.

To play with a VST

Open drawer and power on laptop
Log in and run the Cantabile app that has my various VSTs loaded and configured.
Hold the function key and hit the upper C on the N3 to turn off Local Control (see page 38 in the owner's manual).

If you expand the pic in my post, you can see some white tubing running from the bottom of the rear leg of the piano - that contains all the cables. Hiding them is probably not as big an issue with the N2 form factor. I've also got some cable clips screwed to the underside of the piano to route cords from the connectors and to the rear of the back leg.

iternabe

TheBoringPianist When I was using my Roland FP-30X, I've tried to have Pianoteq (running on computer) to send the audio back to use the DP's speaker. It worked fine. I looked at owner's manual of Yamaha P515 and N2. You should be able to do the same with either. However, the setup with P515 would be simpler than N2. Let me explain why.

P515 has a built-in audio interface. That means its USB port in the back can both send (MIDI) and receive (audio) signal via the same USB cable connected to computer or tablet.

N2 does to have built-in audio interface. It doesn't even have a "USB-to-Host" port. The only USB port it has is for storage device (flash drive). You will need two cables to the PC: one MIDI-to-USB cable to send MIDI from DP to the computer, another audio cable (3.5mm to 1/4 inch) to send VST produced audio back into the DP. I am not sure how this would work with a tablet that does not have a headphone port - maybe using a USB hub?

In either case, you will need to turn off the built-in sound engine of the DP. That feature is called "Local Control", and you turn it off in order to hear only the sound from your VST.

TheBoringPianist

Thank you @Jane and @iternabe — will definitely give that a try soon!

Jazzpunk

My current DP is a Roland FP-90X so it's easy to implement. I have a dedicated laptop that sits on top of it. I run my headphones directly out of the laptop. Two steps to practicing: Open laptop and sign in. Power on Roland.

Noire is always open. I like the laptop set up as it allows me to quickly throw down ideas in Ableton or Logic and easily transfer them over to my Mac Studio.