Pianos (keys) are badly designed!

PASHKULI

Hello, PianoTell members and readers!

TL; DR (please scroll down for the links to my 'Google Drive' repository and my YouTube channel)

I design pianos (as a hobby) as you can see on the photos. My journey started when I was 14 years old when I saw a real acoustic grand piano in my home town's local theatre.

Of course, I had seen pianos on the TV, but never up-close and under my hands. I opened that grand piano and its details, especially the keys, almost immediately grabbed my attention.

I got extremely puzzled about the discrepancies that big piano and its keyboard had. I tried to "play" something (I had no idea how to play piano as I started to take drums lessons in the same theatre – that is how I had the chance to come close to that grand piano) and it was obvious to me something was not quite right…

The re-Design of the Standard Piano Keyboard

In the following years I had a schoolmate who had an upright piano she had started learning to play at age 5 (I found that a bit shocking to be honest). We spent hours and hours every week when she practised for competitions and stage performances so I had a chance to look at her hand movements and take measures and observe. Overall, I started to search for answers to the questions emerging in my head.

• the discomfort of the proportions in standard piano keys •

I could not grasp the reasons for such unpleasant discrepancies and overall discomfort when touching the keys ('blacks' on a elevated level up)… especially when Pianos were considered to be a luxury music instrument (more or less).

I developed some ideas about re-designing the piano keyboard but never spoke to anyone about it (besides sharing my thoughts with my piano player schoolmate) at that time till I graduated and went to Uni. Internet gave me access to many sources of info so the re-design began. I wanted to somehow make the 'equalised' (equally tempered design… if you'd like the pun) piano keyboard. So I did my solution:

• equally tempered standard piano keyboard •

On one hand, all respective widths are equal, and on the other – the keyboard could be made narrower for smaller hands! Everyone involved in such measurements knows that usually piano keys get divided in two groups: [C to E] and [F to B]

It leads to a deviation between the narrow areas juxtaposed to the front\wider areas between the keys [E] and [F] – the gap is not dead straight. My redesign 'splits that difference' sharing it between the two vertical gaps, namely between [В] and [C] and the already mentioned [E] and [F]. We are talking about a fraction of a mm (millimetre) depending on the chosen overall width\span of the hand (small or big "octave" span).

That was one of the main reasons. The next reason was the uncomfortable separation of elevation between both type of keys 'black' and 'white'. If you know the history of how early pianos were constructed as a set of levers and that there were no 'black' keys (who knows why called "accidentals" – no such thing in Pythagoras time) and how the 'black' pentatonic set of keys were added… by the way it is one of the reason in Germany the key [В] is known as [H] but that could be discussed later. So, I fixed that as well.

• the re-Design of the Standard piano keyboard •

• some of the consideration about such a re-Design •

• …what can I say •

• a simple concept as a real grand piano keyboard •

The re-Design of the Uniform Piano Keyboard

• such keyboards are known as Jankó and Dreschke type of piano keyboards •

Well, we could include the Bayan accordion keyboard here as well but Bayans can have different interval layout structure between the rows of keys.

Generally, those uniform layout keyboards are known as 'Janko' because Paul von Janko managed to build a few of such keyboards, whilst Dreschke did not built any. I had seen Bayan keyboards of course, they are not a novelty but info about Jankó (1882) I first read on the Internet in 2010. His keyboard was definitely similar to the earlier Dreschke (1846) and Bayan (1830).

Jankó, being a Hungarian, as his friend and world renown pianist and composer Liszt, showed his keyboard to Liszt who got really impressed and wanted to have another piano playing career using that keyboard.

During the 20th century there were some few attempts at reviving Jankó but I found them to be a step back… or aside from the right direction. So, I did my re-Design of the Dreschke not so much Jankó but all inspired probably by the Bayan more or less. Not going to delve deep into the technical differences between Dreschke-Janko-Bayan as they are obvious for those interested in the subject. Here is my solution:

• an overall view of the Uniform re-Design compared to its Standard piano counterpart •

• it is all about the comfort of the human hand
• just put your calm hand on it and you got a chord as shown! •
• renova ("octave") span is _130mm

• ok, maybe a few technical info won't hurt… •

• side view of the PASHKULI Uniform piano keyboard •

This is an obscure topic and only intended as an introduction post to this forum. History of the piano as a musical instrument is huge as well. I hope this topic at least raised your curiosity in the subject and give you an idea what has been missed or left unsolved in the past few centuries. Not that it matters – many players are clueless about the reasons and state of the art. After all Mozart did not invent the Pianoforte. Bartolomeo Cristofori did. Chopin did not invent the 'escapement lever', Erard did. But piano players have the right to know about their instruments and eventually to have a choice when make informative decisions. At least a choice. We would like to accommodate the piano to the player as we all have different hand size (even when growing up). Certainly, piano (acoustic) is not a cheap musical instrument, but with its digital alternatives we have the advantage to make a choice.

And we have not even talked about the Music notation… although there is not a forum section about it as it is not about the piano, although its origin has been tightly connected to the piano.

But that is a completely separate discussion (you can find some of it in my 'Google Drive' in the links bellow). If you are interested and the admins allow it, I can start a topic about Music Notation. It is a great joy for me to discuss such problems with other musicians.

presentations (.pdf) work in progress

images (photos)

videos (not needed, watch my Youtube channel videos)

PASHKULI (YouTube channel)

Animisha

Very interesting Pashkuli! I would love to try to play on your piano (not the Jankó and Dreschke type, because that would require so much relearning, but the Bösendorfer above), especially pieces that were written for male hands, and that I need to adapt so they don't hurt my hands. It would be interesting to see if they don't hurt my hands without my adaptations on your piano.

PASHKULI And we have not even talked about the Music notation

I have spent quite some time ~~thinking~~ feeling irritated about the impracticality of the music notation system we have now, but I have accepted it. Still,

PASHKULI If you are interested and the admins allow it, I can start a topic about Music Notation.

I am sure the admins will allow it! Why wouldn't they?

PASHKULI

Animisha I am sure the admins will allow it! Why wouldn't they?

Hi, Animisha
There is no section for such topics on the forum. And the subject is highly controversial, because many musicians have no idea how the current music notation system got invented, then imposed and indoctrinated since the Medieval times as The Church in Europe dominated every aspect of education (the Dark ages). During the Renaissance other arts began to detach from such infuence such as fine art, sculpture, theatre and literature, science (I think it is an art) especially Astronomy, Biology and Chemistry, but Music left that clumsy inheritance ever since… up untill the 20th century but without much progress.

iternabe

IMHO, whether or not the modern staff music notation or the piano has some flawed design is beyond the point. I learn them because the huge amount of music written in them and performed on them. Do they have flaws? Maybe. My own experience is so limited I am really not qualified to say. However, if anyone else want to claim they invented a better system, I won't be convinced until they re-write and re-perform the majority of the existing repertoire successfully on their new system and new instrument.

It's just like the English language, or many other widely used languages. All of them have significant flaws. But we use them because most of whom we communicate with use them, too. There is in fact an invented language, Esperanto, that is supposedly designed for universal communication. Do you know anyone who speaks Esperanto?

hebele

iternabe natural languages and writing systems are full of inconsistencies. But this is expected because they evolve. Useful bits tend to survive. Same with western music notation, not perfect but a useful convention. It's also not that hard, even for a beginner. Recently I've tried follow a youtube piano tutorial and immediately looked for the sheet music. Because following the video was too slow. So for certain things, sheet music seems to be best we have. An alternative "nicely designed" notation not only would need to meet all current complexities but also evolve consistently. That's not going to happen with the diversity of cultures/music we have.

PASHKULI

iternabe However, if anyone else want to claim they invented a better system, I won't be convinced until they re-write and re-perform the majority of the existing repertoire successfully on their new system and new instrument.

This is a collasal task for a single person… unless… I had a "church" behind for support. But I am not an authority on humans' spiritual and intellectual development.

Esperanto was a Latin\Roman based language more or less (minimal inclusion of Russian\Polish but only for its words not the writting). Its alphabet was cumbersome, basically a bit less terrible than Polish. English is germanic with Romanised\Latin mixes. It got popularised because… collonialism and slavery. Sad but true. Similarly to how the church operated (so that in America, Central and South, the Spanish is also dominant… I wonder why… did I hear 'Hely Inquisition' and missioneries?). No from the mid 20th centuries and computers… you get the idea why English.

Music in my opinion deserves its own 'language' not based on any culture or preferences and predilections on alphabet, lyrics (text) and specific scale as a reference point. Unfortunatelly, that is not the case and has not been since the 10th_11th century CE. Again, the reason is obvious.

Think of it as being sort of a 'geocentric' model. So, there is a bit more accurate and independent 'heliocentric' model that I propose. That is all.

Animisha

Inventing a music notation system that facilitates learning to read music would absolutely be worth it. I have one important request. The same note in the right hand should be notated exactly as it is in the left hand.

iternabe MHO, whether or not the modern staff music notation or the piano has some flawed design is beyond the point. I learn them because the huge amount of music written in them and performed on them.

If somebody would invent a music notation system that is easier to learn and read, soon enough there would be an app that reads the old music notation and changes it into the new one.

PASHKULI

hebele That's not going to happen with the diversity of cultures/music we have.

The thing is with modern info tech. and communication it can happen quite successfully. Of course it won't be "viral" or "on the news": teachers would have the most important role in such endeavour. The first thind is realisation, understanding, knowing… then comes transition, adaptation, transformation\translation.
The help of a software tool would be crucial as well. No one has ever done such thing. There were some Music notation in the 20th century and one even way, way back proposed by non other than Jean‑Jacques Rousseau (the swiss philosopher and composer) and quite similar to the Chinese JianPu numerical notation.
That is a mistake. Numericals are way, waaaay too common and familiar to people in representing quantaties and positions. In Music this is ok for intervals and quite innappropriate for notes and rhythm.

PASHKULI

Animisha I have one important request. The same note in the right hand should be notated exactly as it is in the left hand.

Oh, they are! And not only that – "octaves" have same note, no matter for what hand and so on.
And if that is not enough, the composer can make any note notated for either hand… both on the score and as a text message over the phone!

Yes, I am trying to get a programmer (I am really below basic in this field) who would be willing to get on board and help me develop such an app. Yes, I am aware computer programmers are not cheap and many are not interested in usless free Music app.
This Notation also can function as a general TAB (tabulature) notation for any instrument (icnl. drum kits).

Hint: the presentation is in the links (.pdf) in the first post above

MRC

Here's an excellent video on alternate music notation systems:

(You can skip the first 10 minutes if you're not interested in chess)

PASHKULI

MRC Here's an excellent video on alternate music notation systems:

Not much there in the video. There was a website with much more info on it regarding this topic.
Music Notation Project

hebele

MRC ah.. I was ignoring that one just because of its clickbait title. But it was much more informative than an average YT video. Thanks for posting it here.

Animisha

PASHKULI Oh, they are! And not only that – "octaves" have same note, no matter for what hand and so on.

That would be great! I am a fan already. 😊