Animisha Old age doesn’t come alone.

Sadly, this is my experience too, having watched old age take its toll on my parents. If dementia comes along it can be utterly devastating and rob somebody of their faculties bit by bit. I think good health in old age is a bit of a lottery - we can't predict the winners and losers, all we can do is try to push the odds in our favour and make the best of things. I'm sorry if that sounds a bit depressing, but my family history makes me view old age in a negative way. I don't deny that some old people are still living productive, happy lives, I just tend to think of them as the lucky minority. However, if a cure is found for dementia that will be a game changer.

"Don't let's ask for the moon, we have the stars." (Final line from Now,Voyager, 1942)

    keystring Thank you for elaborating. I think I understand now. I'm starting to see patterns in my easy pieces. On a more recent piece I noticed the pattern for the left hand of a single broken cord in each measure and that helped to quickly get the left hand down. I thought, oh now I see the benefit of recognizing patterns. But when I put HT it fell apart because of the added layer of the right hand doing something else. I'm assuming pattern recognition will become more beneficial as I gain more experience and get better at multitasking.

        Kaydia Thank you for elaborating. I think I understand now. I'm starting to see patterns in my easy pieces. On a more recent piece I noticed the pattern for the left hand of a single broken cord in each measure and that helped to quickly get the left hand down. I thought, oh now I see the benefit of recognizing patterns. But when I put HT it fell apart because of the added layer of the right hand doing something else. I'm assuming pattern recognition will become more beneficial as I gain more experience and get better at multitasking.

        This conversation is becoming interesting. I've been told that people have a different way of perceiving things, and you can't assume the other person perceives a thing along the same lines you do, or else you miss each other. An example in my case might be where someone hears chord qualities and chord progressions, which I'm starting to be able to hear, and I tend to hear melodic lines. Or something I can't think of atm. To start I heard things along the lines of music I was familiar with, and miss other things. Also every strength is a weakness and vice versa.

        When you are not reading piano music from the page, say you have favourite songs you listen to and maybe sing, is that a different world? Say there's a song with verses and a chorus that keeps coming back, would you recognize patterns there? Like, the chorus is going to come back now and I can sing along, and something in the music tells you that. Or a new song comes out in the style of music you like, and you can kind of tell where it's going to go. Or a song stops just before the end, and you're itching for the end.

        Well all of that is sound. Maybe in playing the piano, the notes and fingers on the keyboard precede that kind of sound. Actually when I get outside of familiar music then I might go more visual and tactile too. Ofc the writer of that book was talking about memorizing (so no visuals), which isn't off the page. And there I do see patterns rather than a string of notes, (which my 17 year old memory says he proposed but I may be wrong).

        Your last line - yes, things have a way of coming together over time. You've already notice new things that weren't there before, by what you describe.

            keystring When you are not reading piano music from the page, say you have favourite songs you listen to and maybe sing, is that a different world? Say there's a song with verses and a chorus that keeps coming back, would you recognize patterns there? Like, the chorus is going to come back now and I can sing along, and something in the music tells you that. Or a new song comes out in the style of music you like, and you can kind of tell where it's going to go. Or a song stops just before the end, and you're itching for the end.

            I'll break that paragraph down with my answers in bold:

            When you are not reading piano music from the page, say you have favourite songs you listen to and maybe sing, is that a different world? Yes
            Say there's a song with verses and a chorus that keeps coming back, would you recognize patterns there? Yes
            Like, the chorus is going to come back now and I can sing along, and something in the music tells you that. Not sure
            Or a new song comes out in the style of music you like, and you can kind of tell where it's going to go. No
            Or a song stops just before the end, and you're itching for the end. No

            keystring Well all of that is sound. Maybe in playing the piano, the notes and fingers on the keyboard precede that kind of sound. Actually when I get outside of familiar music then I might go more visual and tactile too. Ofc the writer of that book was talking about memorizing (so no visuals), which isn't off the page. And there I do see patterns rather than a string of notes,

            I haven't listened to much music over the past 25 years, and prior to that it was mostly Country Western with some Pop. I wonder if rarely listening to music for so long is why I'm not picking up on some of those things you asked about. Or maybe my answers would be similar if I'd been asked these questions 25 years ago. I don't know. As far as learning a piano piece goes, it seems for me that it's the notes and fingers on the keyboard preceding the sound.

                  @Kaydia - I'm thinking that there is no right or wrong way. I'm just seeing how we perceive things. By your answers, you do hear patterns in some kinds of music - the Country & Western and Pop. That may be similar to my "hearing" part and would maybe let you relate to what I was writing about. I don't know if we are "supposed to" hear these things. I'm also thinking while writing this that maybe sometimes teachers might assume we hear or perceive things because they do, and maybe we don't. (Just musing)

                    keystring I'm thinking that there is no right or wrong way. I'm just seeing how we perceive things. By your answers, you do hear patterns in some kinds of music - the Country & Western and Pop. That may be similar to my "hearing" part and would maybe let you relate to what I was writing about. I don't know if we are "supposed to" hear these things. I'm also thinking while writing this that maybe sometimes teachers might assume we hear or perceive things because they do, and maybe we don't. (Just musing)

                    No worries, I understood you were "Just musing". But I found your questions interesting, which made me think about them, so I went ahead and answered them anyway. 🙂

                        Kaydia No worries, I understood you were "Just musing". But I found your questions interesting, which made me think about them, so I went ahead and answered them anyway

                        The being made to think went both ways. 🙂

                          Kaydia Thank you for elaborating. I think I understand now. I'm starting to see patterns in my easy pieces. On a more recent piece I noticed the pattern for the left hand of a single broken cord in each measure and that helped to quickly get the left hand down. I thought, oh now I see the benefit of recognizing patterns. But when I put HT it fell apart because of the added layer of the right hand doing something else. I'm assuming pattern recognition will become more beneficial as I gain more experience and get better at multitasking.

                          The many ways in which pattern recognition affects everything in music playing is very interesting to observe and study. I am of the mindset that there are a certain (fairly limited) number of different basic kinds of patterns that one can observe, and each individual tends to gravitate towards certain ones.

                          I find that music theory understanding (especially once it's both in your ear and your theoretical understanding) allows you to see patterns and then patterns within those patterns, and makes most tonal music much more comprehensible and easy to remember and play.

                              Kaydia I have been a student of Piano Career Academy, and before playing a piece, the teacher analysed it. This has been a great help for me to learn to see the patterns in music. I looked for a free video, and I found this blog post, and I saw that there was an analysis for Jingle Bells. Now even though it is the wrong time of the year to listen to an analysis of Jingle bells, it may still be interesting!

                              https://www.pianocareer.com/holistic-piano-playing/christmas-carols-tutorial-piano-beginners/

                              *
                              ... feeling like the pianist on the Titanic ...

                                  ranjit The many ways in which pattern recognition affects everything in music playing is very interesting to observe and study. I am of the mindset that there are a certain (fairly limited) number of different basic kinds of patterns that one can observe, and each individual tends to gravitate towards certain ones.

                                  That is interesting. I can see myself getting into a routine of looking for certain basic patterns when learning a piece.

                                  ranjit I find that music theory understanding (especially once it's both in your ear and your theoretical understanding) allows you to see patterns and then patterns within those patterns, and makes most tonal music much more comprehensible and easy to remember and play.

                                  I imagine this level of seeing patterns within patterns takes a long time to reach.

                                        Animisha I have been a student of Piano Career Academy, and before playing a piece, the teacher analysed it. This has been a great help for me to learn to see the patterns in music. I looked for a free video, and I found this blog post, and I saw that there was an analysis for Jingle Bells. Now even though it is the wrong time of the year to listen to an analysis of Jingle bells, it may still be interesting!

                                        https://www.pianocareer.com/holistic-piano-playing/christmas-carols-tutorial-piano-beginners/

                                        Thanks for the video link. I took a look at it and saw where she pointed out a note pattern repeated in another section. As a bonus bit, I liked her explanation of how to shape the phrasing.

                                        For my method book pieces, I do an analysis of each piece, and get it at least roughed in before I watch the corresponding video from Lets Play Piano Methods. Then I'll incorporate anything new he brings to my attention.

                                          Kaydia I imagine this level of seeing patterns within patterns takes a long time to reach.

                                          I think that's a spectrum. I have started to notice some patterns on the easiest pieces. I expect it is nowhere near what advanced players would see. But now I understand what they are talking about. At the beginning I was so confused about this business of seeing with patterns 🙂

                                              • Kaydia

                                              • Post #96
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                                              hebele I think that's a spectrum. I have started to notice some patterns on the easiest pieces. I expect it is nowhere near what advanced players would see. But now I understand what they are talking about. At the beginning I was so confused about this business of seeing with patterns 🙂

                                              Haha. I hear you! I feel like I'm barely seeing the tip of the iceberg, with so much more to discover.