Bringing out the melody in a chord

Josephine

Hi all, I need some help. I'm learning a Chopin prelude, Op 28 no 17.
So far it went well with bringing the melody out, but now there's a chord where I'm having trouble with that. I think it would be nice if you hear the left hand octave better right? But that top note in the right hand (with the pink color in my image) is too loud. I tried to play it with finger 2 and 3, but there's no difference. I just learned those measures. Is it just a matter of practicing until it does sound right, or is there a certain technique or exercise I can try? It's not super loud, but my attention goes to that top note when I'm listening to myself while playing and I don't want that.

sweelinck

Josephine
The upper C# dotted half note is the melody note. The lower voices you want to bring out are appropriate to voice so that they also are heard.

BartK

What fingering are you using?

Josephine

BartK

I'm still figuring it out, just started this section. So far for these two measures I'm doing this (I hope you can read it).

ShiroKuro

I would play that A with 3 as well… although maybe 4, I’m not in front of the piano right now so can’t be sure…

But what I was going to say was, perhaps you could try just playing the lower C# and the A, with your chosen fingering, and see how it sounds and feels when you voice down the A…. The point of this would be to get a feel for it, and to hear it, as a way to maybe get closer to doing it when you’re playing all the notes.

Similarly, play just the RH part while focusing on quieting that A, and give your ear and your hand time and mental space to experience it.

Lastly, you might just try to bring out the upper C# more and give up on worrying about the A, hoping that, as you say, over time and practice, the A will become less prominent.

Oh btw, does your hand feel tight or does it feel hard to play the C# A C# chord? If so, it may just be that it will improve as your hand gets more comfortable with that shape.

Good luck, this is a beautiful piece!

Josephine

ShiroKuro

Thanks, I've tried it and I think maybe I should change the right hand finger 3 to 2 in the second measure. And maybe even the 5 to 4? When I do that I have to bend my wrist a bit (or get my elbow closer to the body, and a bit up) and it's easier to get more weight on the thumb instead of the other side of the hand for some reason.

Josephine

ShiroKuro Oh btw, does your hand feel tight or does it feel hard to play the C# A C# chord? If so, it may just be that if will improve as your hand gets more comfortable with that shape?

No, it feels more comfortable than the other idea of using 1,2 and 4.

Sam

You should learn to voice a chord with any finger. Here is an exercise: play 5 notes in the RH - C,D,E,F,G. Make them all sound equal. Then bring out one note a time. (While still playing all the notes).

In reality, the note you want to bring out (voice) is played at a faster velocity, but at the same time, as the other notes, but that is hard to visualize. I think of added pressure or weight on the note I want to voice. You have to find the visualization that works for you.

Do that 5 finger exercise until you can voice any of the notes. It takes time and practice.

Sam

ShiroKuro

Sam Here is an exercise: play 5 notes in the RH - C,D,E,F,G. Make them all sound equal. Then bring out one note a time. (While still playing all the notes).

Nice! It seems like such an obvious exercise once explained, but I probably would have never thought of it. I’ll try it too!

Josephine

Sam

Thanks Sam, good idea! I will do that with the left hand too, and then two hands together, because maybe it's mostly the left hand. Sometimes piano playing is like drawing a circle with the left hand and a square with the right hand at the same time. My brain doesn't get it. 😅 When I'm trying to play softer with the right hand my left hand starts to play softer as well. Ohhhh piano playing is so difficult. Difficult but fun.

Animisha

A technique for playing a certain note softer that I was taught, is to ghost-play it. That is, play it so softly it doesn't sound at all. Take all the time you need for doing that! Then carefully, give it some sound.

ShiroKuro

Animisha ghost-play

Ooh, that's interesting!

Josephine

Animisha

Great idea! I will try this as well!

Stub

Ghost playing is an exercise my teacher has suggested for learning to voice down a note (or notes). The ghost played notes are then gradually brought in.

pianoloverus

Stub I think this could be helpful If one uses the correct technique I. E. playing with firm fingers to the bottom of the key and concentrating on depressing the key slowly as discussed in the Denis Zhdanov video. If one tries to create a ghost note by playing lightly just on the surface of the key one will be practicing what I would consider the wrong technique for playing very softly. I think a better method related to the one you mentioned would be to use the correct technique and start with a forte dynamic and then gradually reduce the dynamic pound to PP.

JB_PT

Another technique I've heard (and tried): just focus on the one hand and play the note you want to bring out first, followed by the other notes played very softly. Gradually decrease the time delay and then try them all together. That might help get the voice you want to hear locked into your focus.

ShiroKuro

JB_PT I like this idea as well, focusing first on the note you want to bring out seems like it would be easier to be successful at than focusing on the note you want to quiet.

Josephine

JB_PT

I will try that as well, thanks! I'm glad I asked this question. Such good ideas! And this helps for motivation as well.

I just tried the idea of @Animisha for a while and it already improved!

Josephine

sweelinck

Thanks, it's a different voice indeed, not the main melody. I didn't decribe it correctly.

pianoloverus

Playing very softly while avoiding ghost notes is a fairly difficult and common technical issue that requires practice. It can be exacerbated if the piano's regulation is in bad shape but I will only discuss the technical approach to solving this problem. Just like any technical issue, just practicing it over and over with a hope that the problem will eventually be solved is not nearly as good as having a clear idea about how to solve the problem. I think by far the best explanation of how to play softly while avoiding ghost notes is the one in the following video by Denis Zhdanov:

Although I recommend watching the whole video here is a short summary. Play with firm fingers to the bottom of the key and achieve pp sound by depressing the key slowly. Don't think of playing lightly on the keys or with less than firm fingers or just pushing the keys partially down. He explains everything much better than I can.

Josephine

pianoloverus Just like any technical issue, just practicing it over and over with a hope that the problem will eventually be solved is not nearly as good as having a clear idea about how to solve the problem.

That's exactly why I'm so happy I posted the question here. I'm really glad with all the replies, very helpful!

Thank you for posting the video, I will watch it.