I'm wading in here with trepidation since I'm not following that methodology but maybe am thinking about it.

Reading the instructions you cited, @lilypad - a question to anyone following the system - Does Molly necessarily expect things to be followed in such a lockstep manner? Or is this a starter for you to tweak as needed?

Because I was asked, I recently related how I came to the way I approach practising and learning, which has some similarities but is different. When I get to "If any of the repetitions had errors ...." my own inclination would be "Why does it have errors?", then I'd find the cause of those errors, and that might lead me on a tangent, and that tangent should lead to a reduction of errors. Does Molly go in that kind of direction as well?

    keystring I think response to errors may have been covered in chapter 1 of her book. Before I read that chapter, my response to errors was something like "oh, I made a mistake and will try not to make it next time" instead of delving into the what and why of the mistake. It's still a bad habit of mine, but I think I've gotten better.

    In regards to the lockstep thing, I do lots of tweaking of just about anybody's methods.

      Thank you. For the part you asked about:

      lilypad If any of the repetitions had errors, start over and repeat the process.

      I'd be inclined to tweak this. I don't know how many things you would be repeating . Supposing it's 8 things, and 7 of them are fine, but "thing 4" has errors, then I'd want to have a deep look at "thing 4" and work with it in various ways. I'd leave it for a day so that sleep and rest allows the invisible gremlins in your brain and nervous system to sort it all out. The next day I might then go back to the original routine, with "thing 4" strengthened - or maybe even spend an extra day focusing on "thing 4" and again let the gremlins do their work.

      (While I write about "gremlins" and imagine cute little elves stacking on shelves the things you dumped in there, and connecting new wires, I'm actually talking about the nervous system. šŸ˜ƒ )

        keystring "Why does it have errors?", then I'd find the cause of those errors, and that might lead me on a tangent, and that tangent should lead to a reduction of errors.

        Most of my errors are such that I cannot find a cause beyond "temporary confusion". For instance, in RH m10 there is this four 8th note motif starting with C. In m12, there is the same RH motif one step lower, starting with B flat. When playing m10, first my attention is on counting the 1Ā½ beats before playing F in LH, and then, in the split second in which I need to decide from which note to play the RH motif, I think: B flat, and this is wrong. The cause, temporary confusion with the motif in m12.

        I have no clue about how to reduce this particular temporary confusion, other than repeating this measure correctly 10 times (or 2x5, or 3x3). And I really have no clue at all about how not to suffer from temporary confusion at all. It happens to me a lot.

        *
        ... feeling like the pianist on the Titanic ...

            How about working backward and also out of order? m. 10 and m. 12 back and forth .... but starting on beat 3; then the note before beat 3 into the rest of it, then a beat earlier.

            As a "visual picture", m. 10 and 12 look identical. If there were no lines or spaces, the RH looks identical. These are the kinds of things that can still trip me up. I sometimes consciously tell myself, "third space, C" out loud visualizing it. I may spend time just focusing on seeing lines and spaces, because I identified that weakness.

            Animisha I have two suggestions. Practice the left hand separately so you don't have to think so much about it and can concentrate more on the right hand. Circle the two different notes to draw your attention to it or even temporarily write the note name of the note above it to make it easier to read instantly. Another approach would be simply to memorize that for the two measures in question The note on the third beat is just the next descending note in the E flat major scale Or just a whole step down from the note on the first beat.

              @Animisha I just played with what I suggested and created a sound file. Each thing would be a different stage, and practised a number of times. I might even use something like what @lilypad described, but for the stages.

              You'll notice that I go back and forth between m. 10 and m. 12, and start adding to them. I extend the measure into the next one by a beat, because we don't want artificial pauses between measures. The last step is m. 9 - 10 and into 11; m. 11-12 into 13.

              I learned in practising to tackle hard parts first. Then later they flow seamlessly from the easier parts, and they become the easy parts. Let me know if this makes sense.

              https://www.dropbox.com/scl/fi/17d6f3lj7zbm2ww13r4mr/MG-plus.mp3?rlkey=wauxydt5l651dzcchjf7eup5c&st=cmsi70ly&dl=0

              I would be thinking of mm. 9-10 and mm. 11-12 as a sequence and try to remember that you are going from a higher pitch down to a pitch one step lower.

              keystring Because I was asked, I recently related how I came to the way I approach practising and learning, which has some similarities but is different. When I get to "If any of the repetitions had errors ...." my own inclination would be "Why does it have errors?", then I'd find the cause of those errors, and that might lead me on a tangent, and that tangent should lead to a reduction of errors. Does Molly go in that kind of direction as well?

              I think this is the correct approach.

                Animisha When playing m10, first my attention is on counting the 1Ā½ beats before playing F in LH, and then, in the split second in which I need to decide from which note to play the RH motif, I think: B flat, and this is wrong. The cause, temporary confusion with the motif in m12.

                I think this "counting", "decide" and "think" could be the problem.

                I have just read again about "choking" in chapter 13 of the book. This chapter is pure gold. She says that main two reasons are internal distractions and explicit monitoring, which means trying to micromanage every aspect of your playing.

                She then says that during performance we should focus on the big picture, like expression, sound quality and phrasing. This is what she calls external focus and she describe how good this works in sport research. So she says this is the way to reduce the likelihood of choking (unfortunately it never will be reduced to zero). It is all about building the confidence that focusing on the big picture will leave the muscular memory do it's job, while you know where you are in the music and you focus on how do you want to sound.

                Another teacher I follow, Dr John Mortensen, says: hear what you want to play.

                This books indeed need to be read many times because it is so dense.

                    Danieru have just read again about "choking" in chapter 13 of the book. This chapter is pure gold. She says that main two reasons are internal distractions and explicit monitoring, which means trying to micromanage every aspect of your playing.

                    She then says that during performance we should focus on the big picture, like expression, sound quality and phrasing. This is what she calls external focus and she describe how good this works in sport research. So she says this is the way to reduce the likelihood of choking (unfortunately it never will be reduced to zero). It is all about building the confidence that focusing on the big picture will leave the muscular memory do it's job, while you know where you are in the music and you focus on how do you want to sound.

                    Thanks for posting this!! I have not finished MGā€™s book, and now I know I really need to!

                    One of my main issues is what I have always called a problem of concentrationā€¦. A lot of pieces I play are longish ā€” long is relative of course, Iā€™m not playing classical pieces that are twenty minutes long, but for example my recital piece was just under 5 minutes, and one of the pieces Iā€™m working on right now is over 7 minutes. I often have the experience of having the piece polished and performance-ready, and then whether in practice, at my lesson, or while recording, I make a big flub near the very end. In my recital piece, it returns to the beginning theme at then end, so after a more challenging section, the ending gets easier again. And it was in the easier section where I would flub, this same passage comes at the beginning, which I never mess up, so itā€™s not a technical issue.

                    Iā€™ll have to read what she means by choking, but the comments about focus, and knowing where you are in the music, resonate with how I experience this problem, so I suspect itā€™s relevant.

                    When talking about this with my teacher, he said ā€œfind more things to pay attention to in the music.ā€ And I have been thinking about that ever sinceā€¦. I suspect that aligns with MGā€™s ā€œexternal focus.ā€

                    Some people, @keystring comes to mind, have (rightly) pointed out that a lot of what MG says isnā€™t necessarily new (leaving aside the way that she uses a review of research findings from neurological studies to guide her practice recommendations, which is new) but I find that sometimes we hear what is essentially the same advice from many different sources, but one person will present it in a way that really clicks, and thatā€™s when we finally become able to incorporate the advice.

                    So that may be part of what MG ā€œgets right,ā€ in other words, she may be presenting a combination of new and not-so-new ideas, but sheā€™s obviously presenting them in a way that really resonates with peopleā€¦.

                    Anyway, I really need to finish reading the bookā€¦ šŸ˜…

                      Danieru She then says that during performance we should focus on the big picture, like expression, sound quality and phrasing.

                      I don't see how someone can do that if they are still having difficulty playing the right notes in their right rhythm which was the case with the poster you responded to. That idea makes very little sense to me. While it's good to try and play with some expression all the time I don't think that should be the focus until one no longer has problems playing the correct notes and rhythm.

                      What MG suggested seems appropriate when one is at the stage where one has learned the piece well enough to perform it for others and probably that's what MG is talking about. But I don't think it applies to the poster you responded to.

                          Animisha so my recommendation for the problem youā€™re having with the passage and those particular notes would be something like this:
                          It sounds to me like you probably need to be moving your RH sooner than you are. You should reach that note well before it needs to be played. And I think it would also be helpful to feel how the LH and RH playing events relate to each other. I would probably try to feel this as moving the RH to the first eight note just as the LH is playing the eighth note. So playing the LH eighth note triggers the RH to move. Iā€™d practice just the first part of measures 10 and 12 (the parts I bracketed in green) as separate practice blocks.

                          Also Iā€™m not sure if this is helpful, but one way you could visualize the triggering is perhaps like this:

                          Where the arrow indicates the triggering. Also if playing just this section remains tricky, you could start by omitting the final LH note and add that in later (hence my dashed Xs).

                          Here is a slight modification to the above that might also work. Given you have the pedal down, you could alternatively move the RH even sooner ā€” so that it moves at the same time the LH moves to the quarter note and just stays prepared to play C in m10 and B flat in m12. I think either could work in this context. I think the big point is that if youā€™re getting to the note right as youā€™re playing it, thereā€™s a lot more room for error than if you get to the note well before you need to play it.

                              pianoloverus If I may, I would like to gently suggest that at some point, you should probably start reading the book if youā€™re going to go much farther in your critique of MGā€¦

                                  Sgisela Animisha so my recommendation for the problem youā€™re having with the passage and those particular notes would be something like this:
                                  It sounds to me like you probably need to me moving your RH sooner than you are. You should reach that note well before it needs to be played. And I think it would also be helpful to feel how the LH and RH playing events relate to each other. I would probably try to feel this as moving the RH to the first eight note just as the LH is playing the eighth note. So playing the LH eighth note triggers the RH to move. Iā€™d practice just the first part of measures 10 and 12 (the parts I bracketed in green) as separate practice blocks.

                                  Given you have the pedal down, you could alternatively move the RH even sooner ā€” so that it moves at the same time the LH moves to the quarter note and just stays prepared to play C in m10 and B flat in m12. I think either could work in this context. I think the big point is that if youā€™re getting to the note right as youā€™re playing it, thereā€™s a lot more room for error than if you get to the note well before you need to play it.

                                  I think practicing the parts you have in blue brackets separately definitely makes sense and is a very good idea. But I don't recommend getting to the first 8th note in the right hand well before one has to play it as being necessary or useful since it's so close to the note before it.

                                    ShiroKuro pianoloverus If I may, I would like to gently suggest that at some point, you should probably start reading the book if youā€™re going to go much farther in your critique of MGā€¦

                                    Why? Other posters have expressed ideas in the book and, assuming what they say is accurate, then it's perfectly reasonable to comment on that. If I disagree with something, I virtually always give reasons for the disagreement. Then if someone disagrees with what I've said, hopefully they'll explain why also. I think that's what any reasonable discussion is about.

                                        I posted a practice suggestion yesterday based on the stated problem, I posted an entire recording of the stages for practising it. I hope above all the @Animisha sees it since that's the person with the problem. But I'm also hoping others here see it. I can repost the link if it's too hard to find.

                                        The practice approach I suggested is one I learned to use, but I also think it goes into the mindset of what MG is reaching for. (1) It is outside the box of the "usual" (which she does), (2) small manageable bits, (3) repeating in the manner @lilypad cited implied, but within the measures I put in.

                                        @Sgisela 's idea - yes. But I approached it by starting on beat 3, then working backward into it.

                                        This might also lead to aspects of MG's alternate look at things. I'm bringing in the link again in case it wasn't seen.

                                        https://www.dropbox.com/scl/fi/17d6f3lj7zbm2ww13r4mr/MG-plus.mp3?rlkey=wauxydt5l651dzcchjf7eup5c&st=d1286hkn&dl=0

                                        For one thing, it would give your comments a great deal more credibility.

                                        Other posters have expressed ideas in the book and, assuming what they say is accurate, then it's perfectly reasonable to comment on that.

                                        Even if what they say is accurate, it is of necessity a truncated version of the original, and many details will be glossed over. (The book is over 270 long after all)
                                        So your comments really aren't about MG's approach, they're about someone else's very brief representation of MG's approach.

                                        I think that's what any reasonable discussion is about.

                                        I suppose it is not unreasonable, but I don't think it's a good fit for this thread. We had some trouble in this thread (I believe this was before you joined PT), and the thread was split specifically so that this thread would be focused on people's experiences implementing MG's practice approach, and the other thread would be a place for critiquing MG.

                                        If you want to continue contributing to this thread, you should start reading the book and trying out some of her suggestions.