Give up on a piece?

Animisha · 2024-11-18T08:39:50+00:00

I am thinking hard about giving up on a piece. But how to know? One thing I already know, I won't be able to play it at the given tempo. But I listened to...

twocats

I second (third? fourth?) putting the piece on hold for now! Come back to it every once in a while and hopefully you'll see improvement every time. You don't have to give up completely 🙂

Nightowl

Animisha I recently came across a video which explores this subject:

The presenter rambles on a bit, but he speaks sense and echoes many thoughts that have been expressed on this thread. (He also has a nice accent and is rather easy on the eye... added bonus. 🙂)

WieWaldi

Nightowl Didnt watch the entire video, but he stated the bullet points right in the beginning:

Learn pieces slightly harder than your current level
If you don't, you plateau

It is true, but also ~~wrong~~. If you learn pieces at your current level, you don't plateau. Maybe your technique isn't getting that much stronger, but you improve in learning-speed. Ask one question:
What is more impressive, learning a difficult piece in one month, or learning a not so difficult piece in one week?

Edit: watched his video to the end. I agree to his opinion 99% - except the statement of plateauing if you stay at the same level.

Animisha

Nightowl

I checked the transcript of this video - yes, he rambles a bit... - and the second sign
"the next sign that the piece may be way too difficult is if you spend many many many hours improving like actually drilling passages and really trying to understand them and dissecting them and practicing them in a really efficient way and you realize there's almost no progress so this is a classic indicator of this is an insurmountable challenge for me at the moment"

That is where I gave up.

KrisR

Have you considered lightening up on yourself? Not expecting perfection? Just enjoying the process not the end result?

The older I get (and the sicker I get) the more I am focused on the enjoyment of simply being able to sit down at the piano and play. I'll NEVER be great. I'll never be good in the eyes of others. But what I know is that every time I sit down at the piano, I am in love. I am passionate. I am in a good spot.

I am so grateful for the woman who gave me a piano 5 years ago and that I had the determination to finally start what I'd wanted to do since childhood. Learn to play the piano.

Whether I hit the right notes, whether I remember to place my hands gracefully, whether I remember the dynamics.......I know I am in love with the process. The results come and go depending upon the day. But the joy is there always. And that's my benchmark.

To clarify, I'm only speaking for me and where I am in life. I DO connect with your frustrations. And, I have been known to put pieces away and do it so quietly that my teacher doesn't even know it missing from our lessons. LOL (I'm tricky that way).

Only you can decide and neither option is right or wrong. Go with your gut.

Animisha

KrisR Have you considered lightening up on yourself? Not expecting perfection? Just enjoying the process not the end result?

Thank you Kris! I don't expect perfection, and I am enjoying the process, at least most of the time. 😎 I just had a hard time giving up a piece that I had spent quite some time with.

Animisha

WieWaldi t is true, but also ~~wrong~~. If you learn pieces at your current level, you don't plateau. Maybe your technique isn't getting that much stronger, but you improve in learning-speed. Ask one question:
What is more impressive, learning a difficult piece in one month, or learning a not so difficult piece in one week?

I agree with you WieWaldi, and, even more so, even if I plateau, so what?
When I practise a lovely piece at my level and I enjoy learning and playing this piece, who cares if this piece is a plateau piece for me? I don't.

Just like KrisR said: "I am focused on the enjoyment of simply being able to sit down at the piano and play." This idea of progress... it will happen by itself. Or not. The piano repertoire is so vast that I can find enough early intermediate pieces to keep me happy for the rest of my life.

thepianoplayer416

A recent video from Robert Estrin:

Animisha

thepianoplayer416

The very first sentence he says: "it's the one thing we all have control of is your thoughts!"
Congratulations Robert! Actually, I don't. You should hear what is going on inside of me some days. 😆

Now of course, this is quite true: "Only think the correction in your music. When you miss something where
was that what is the right note there that's the question to ask yourself concentrate on the correction oh is a
dsharp there dsharp, Ah that's it!"

Sophia

My personal threshold seems to be three weeks. If I can't learn a piece by then, I get bored/frustrated enough to move on to another one. Usually that is the next piece in the book, but if I feel that the next one is even more above my current skill level, I go back to older pieces. I think I played through the first two Alfred books about five times in total because especially halfway through Alfred 2 I started to feel overwhelmed at times.

Now I'm about 1/3 into Alfred 3 and I haven't had this "stuck" feeling just yet... though I know that is just a matter of time 😃 Then I will need to revisit easier levels once again... Because miraculously, once I play through the entire book from scratch, all of a sudden the once-daunting piece isn't too scary any longer.

So I too don't entirely agree with constantly pushing forward. I tried that in the past and it led to feeling so overwhelmed that I gave up altogether. Not saying that this approach would work for everyone, but for a hobby I think it's vital to enjoy the journey, not just getting results.

If a piece is worthy, it will still be there later. Funny enough this popped up in my Youtube feed today and I think it ties in very nicely with this topic:

WieWaldi

Sophia This is a very interesting video. I would classify it as a "MUST SEE" if you are starting as a self directed beginner. And I absolutely agree to everything what he said.
Only thing, he is a bit sketchy with his stages system:
Essential - Intermediate - Mastery.
Come on, there are way way more nuances in describing a skill level.

Nightowl

WieWaldi Only thing, he is a bit sketchy with his stages system: Essential - Intermediate - Mastery.
Come on, there are way way more nuances in describing a skill level.

To be fair, he did stipulate that there are 3 sections within each skill level in his course, so maybe those 9 sections cover off the requirements for people playing from 0 (absolute <"bloody"> beginner) right through to advanced players working towards ABRSM grade 8.

Sophia I feel the same way, if I have not made good progress in 3 (or possibly 4) weeks then I think the piece is currently beyond me and I move on to something else. We need to push ourselves to a degree if we are to progress, but we also need to be realistic about our own limits. Not always easy for people flying solo, which is why this forum and various YT tutorials like the one you posted are really useful.

Animisha

Sophia My personal threshold seems to be three weeks.

I try to remember the last time when I learned a piece in three weeks. Years ago!

About your video, I would not recommend Comptine d'autre été to beginners, especially not to beginners who don't have a teacher. Maybe men with big hands though. Not women with women-sized hands. Okay, yes, I tried to learn this piece before I had had any lessons, and wow, did my left hand hurt.

Sophia

Animisha I would not recommend Comptine d'autre été to beginners, especially not to beginners who don't have a teacher.

Exactly! I think that was absolutely the point he was trying to make... start at the beginning and leave the more complicated pieces until your skills are up to it - because if one just proceeds through their method book (or whichever process one chooses) because at some point, the once difficult piece will suddenly become doable, even easy. But it takes time to get there... lots of patience... oh boy. I am almost talking myself out of my hobby here because patience is not exactly my strongest point. I just can't imagine working on a piece for that long... but I'm quite resigned to be an eternal beginner (some day) 😁

Nightowl

Animisha I try to remember the last time when I learned a piece in three weeks. Years ago!

I hope you don't mind me butting into your conversation with Sophia, but when I read the above comment I was a bit puzzled - do you mean you tend to spend longer or shorter on a piece, these days? Just curious, as you mentioned on another thread that over a few years you gradually became able to play more intermediate pieces, but the change happened slowly, without you noticing.

It's good that you read the signs for yourself and escaped from the self imposed prison of playing purgatory that we all find ourselves in at some point, as we buy into the "sunk costs" fallacy. We plod on, not realising that we are just treading water. But maybe you will come back to this thread in a few months and tell us that you cracked it, after just a week or two. That is what happened to me recently, something clicked when I revisited an old piece. I love that feeling. 🙂

Animisha

Sophia patience is not exactly my strongest point. I just can't imagine working on a piece for that long...

It is not like I spend weeks and weeks playing the whole piece. Especially when I use Molly's method, I start with a passage one hand only, mainly just figuring out that passage. Next day, I add a passage, etc. After a couple of days, there are days of not playing that passage. So, using this schedule, it takes weeks before I have even played the whole piece hands together for the first time!

Animisha

Nightowl I hope you don't mind me butting into your conversation with Sophia,

I appreciate your thoughts very much! About butting in, this is a forum. So everyone can butt into any conversation with any one.

Nightowl do you mean you tend to spend longer or shorter on a piece, these days?

Longer. Sometimes way longer. But, as I said to Sophia, not at all every day the whole piece.

Nightowl

I know what you mean, you might only play it for 10 minutes a day, and you're probably playing other pieces each day too. Also, while pieces for early beginners are only 16-24 measures long, some intermediate pieces are 40 measures or more, so that's another factor. I timed my practice sessions on a handful of the pieces in Alfred's book 1, out of interest. Some took a couple of hours, while others took many more. The Entertainer took me 14 hours to master, over the course of about a month. I forced myself through it, as it was a key piece, but when I totted up the total hours I decided that I would not spend that level of time on any piece again, unless I really love it. I'd hate to be a concert pianist, spending hundreds of hours on long pieces, I've no idea how they do it.

BartK

3 weeks might be a lot when you are working on beginner pieces but as you play more and more advanced pieces you start spending much more time on each piece. Generally, for an intermediate to advanced pianist 2-4 months is a good goal for polishing a piece. If it takes only 3 weeks it means the piece is somewhat below your present level.

Nightowl

BartK I believe you Bart. Which is why I feel it's unlikely that I'll ever play at an advanced level, because I doubt that I'd enjoy spending weeks on one piece. So, maybe I'll remain a perpetual beginner but I can live with that. 🙂

Sophia

It probably also makes a difference whether you are working on something of your own choosing or just working through your method book. Especially the Alfred method has several very drab pieces all throughout the three books. There is no way I would spend three weeks on Blow the Man Down or an almost unrecognizable version of Brahms' Lullaby 😂

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