If you've been wanting a newer Bluthner Model 2

Ithaca · 2024-09-02T02:04:16+00:00

This seems like an incredibly good deal: https://www.pianomart.com/buy-a-piano/view?id=57001 (Summarizing: 7'10", built in 2017, sold new in 2019, one-owne...

Joseph-Fleetwood

There's actually one in the London auction, 2010, that is expected to fetch around 15k GBP. So ye, maybe you could get one.

Joseph-Fleetwood

The only problem is that while there are certain gems come up from time to time, like this Blüthner Model 2, there are other pianos that have had a hard life. Some pianos in the auction have problems including splits in the bridge, or require new actions, or are just plain old. Late 20th Century Steinway Model Bs (1965 onwards) always seem to be a popular catch but let's not forget how old these pianos are now. I remember in the 80s and 90s pianos that were 60 years old were regarded as OLD and required rebuilt or replaced. As for Yamaha, You have to be careful with all makes of piano including Yamaha. So while a (for example) 1998 C3 might look stunning and mint, there could be issues with it. I've seen pianos that look mint to the naked eye that have had serious issues. It depends on how they've been kept. If the buyer's agent knows what to look for and really understands the piano then it can work out. As it happens, not many people really understand pianos all that well, even enthusiasts.

Joseph-Fleetwood

It's a nice idea, but honestly you really have to find a gem of a piano at a low price for it to work. Sometimes there are Steinways from the 80s and 90s that have had little to no use which is great, and they sell for a fraction of the cost of new. A 1998 Hamburg D sold for 47k GBP which is a very good price. But for example, a 1971 B has remained unsold and the price in dollars to America including the 24 percent auction fee will be 39k dollars. That's fine if you just want a Hamburg B in playable condition but on that piano the rollers are notching, and the back checks are worn which tells me it needs a new action (14k by the way, for a top stack, fitted and regulated). The case isn't in great condition which is fine if you don't care about it, but if you do, then you can add 5k to the price. The strings are old but still functional, but it's now at the age where it really would benefit from new strings, and probably a new pin block.... So all in all that piano ends up being much more. Plus you need to pay a percentage to the piano finder, who needs to get to London, stay in London, come back, and so that 39k Hamburg B becomes a 70K project. Well, for that you can get a recent vintage (c.20-30 year old) Model B from Steinway in excellent playing and cosmetic condition.

HeartKeys

Ithaca how little-known the European makes are here in the U.S.

Yep. If one were to quiz the entire US population, especially if they were born post 1990 for example, I would guess less than 1-2% have heard of a brand other than Yamaha and Steinway. Out of those who play(ed) piano (casually), maybe 15% of them have heard of Bosendorfer or Bechstein. 5% maybe heard of Steingraeber, Bluthner, etc. 0.5% maybe heard of Fazioli, or Seiler, etc...

(Generalizing here but...) the US stands out in its short attention span and/or attraction towards marketing, thus Yamaha, Steinway are all they've heard of. Anytime I mention any other brand, almost 100% of the time they go, "hmm. okay. cool!" and are disinterested.

It's already meager to find anyone who knows anything about pianos, let alone playing one. And out of that miniscule population, it requires one to go out of the way to know about any other makers.

[yes, there are exceptions, so I'm making sweeping statements of course].

Joseph-Fleetwood

It's not just the USA. Most people in the UK don't know Blüthner and Bösendorfer. A lot of pianists do know them because there are so many old ones kicking around, but not many people know about the new models and they judge the whole brand on a couple of examples that are 50 to 80 years old, or more - up to 140 years old - and then say they don't like them compared to a new Yamaha... Well no Sh*t! Blüthner London also did themselves zero favors by not investing in a full time concert technician who could prepare all the pianos. They used to send all the pianos through the Leveretts, when they owned that factory and the Leveretts were their employees - and so the pianos were impeccably prepared. This is actually why so many of the pianos they sold after that period were Leverett rebuilds! It got to the point around 10 years ago that the showroom didn't want to stock Leverett rebuilds anymore because they needed to promote the new product, and it couldn't compete

Joseph-Fleetwood

Whether it was on reason of price or quality I do not know. The rebuilds were at that time about half the price of the new pianos, which is not an insignificant difference. At that time in London, the pianos being shipped over from Leipzig had a harsh tone because they were using really hard hammers to try and modernize the sound. In the ten years previous, Blüthner still had that drawing room sound and they wanted to try to move away from that and be taken seriously as a competition instrument. That was a very difficult learning process for Blüthner because those pianos don't actually suit having that sound. Leveretts kept the sound as Colin had learned to voice them, and he was taught that technique by Rudolf Blüthner. People went to Blüthner because they wanted a drawing room sound or a chamber music sound, or if they were buying a concert grand they wanted something more romantic and warmer. They didn't want a hard tone. There's a lot to be said for sticking to what you're known for.

Blüthner pianos are designed to sing, and they really do sing, but if you put too hard a hammer on it the attack becomes too much and it goes from singing to shouting. A Yamaha voiced that way becomes dull and dead, but a Blüthner sings. You have to voice to the piano really. It's the whole build of the instrument that counts. The rim of a Blüthner is sectional, not continuous, and the idea is that it allows the body and soundboard to vibrate more freely. To change the voicing so drastically, one would really have to change the whole build. I think the Haessler has a continuous rim and it suits the more modern tone. But of course Haessler was never going to be a piano that competes at that level on concert and competition stages. It's a good piano, but it's a practice room piano really.

ShiroKuro

Pallas If dreaming about pianos is a waste of time, I'm in real trouble.

Same! 😃

mivaldes

That piano is certainly beautiful. I'd love to actually hear it in person. Sad that it was owned for so short a time and the person is moving to assisted lliving. I wonder what the story is there?

HeartKeys

regarding the immediate conversation above, my take is:

it's a dumb decision if you say it is.
it's a great decision if you say it is.

for me, it's a great decision for me to have spent, in my (finite budget) a "fortune" for two nice acoustic grands, and four keyboards, and tons of VST software, etc.

for me, it's a stupid decision to spend $0.20 more per gallon for gas, when I could've gotten it cheaper down the street.

human behavior. 🙂