@shawarma_bees ’s thread about his piano layout reminded me of something I’ve been meaning to ask about… I look at real estate listing photos online all the time, and recently I’ve seen three different houses that have an upright in what was clearly a closet or else in a recessed area. In each of the photos, the spot where the piano is located was barely wider than the width of the upright itself, and not much deeper than the depth of the piano as well. So if you were sitting at the piano, you would be sitting in the room rather than inside the recessed area, but if no one was at the piano, the piano wouldn’t be out in the room, but back in that recessed area. Does my description make sense?

Do my question is, what is the impact on the piano’s sound in such a layout?

I'm curious about the answers because I thought about it. We have a small house, and without meaning to I started to collect pianos. 😆

One of the pianos is standing in a narrow hallway. We don't have a laundry room, and I was thinking a while ago that if we build a laundry room next to that hallway we could create an opening in the wall where the piano is now, and build a wall in the new laundry room at a distance from the old wall, the same distance as depth of the piano. So when you are in the hallway there is some sort of open closet for the piano, and in the laundry room there are built in closets on the left and right side of the piano.

I hope this makes sense. Maybe I should try to draw it.

I think I follow you… I should see if I can find one of the photos as well… I don’t keep the addresses when I look at these listing photos though (I’m not planning to move ever again! 😛

Please find attached a picture of my upright piano positioned immediately next to our dining room fireplace. (Also please ignore the larger than life music desk which I constructed for use on another piano.) It is quite common in the UK to position upright pianos next to fireplaces but usually the fireplace would stand further into the room leaving an alcove for the piano to be positioned in. Would such an alcove be considered a closet in other countries?

Is the sound quality compromised by placing uprights in such a position? Perhaps marginally. In my case I believe the piano is too near the wall but I don't want to do anything about it.

@keff in your case, it's open above the piano, so I would imagine that makes some difference.... lemme see if I can find a photo...

So these aren't the ones I saw originally, just some I found by searching for "upright in a closet." The first two pics are the same space, just different angles. The last one is closer to what inspired me to post this thread. It seems like the piano is really back in that alcove.

So, what impact do you think this would have on the sound? It could be a beneficial impact of course, or a bad one?

    What I had in mind looks like the last photo.

      I've always thought uprights sound best in the middle of a room with good acoustics, audience standing behind the piano (relative to the player) so they get the full effect of the soundboard.

      In a home, that's rarely practical, not to mention imperfect acoustics. I could see a nook actually being better, since you could add some sound panels that would control the sound better, especially boomy low end and brittle high end frequencies.

      Would be interesting to experiment with!

      Enthusiastic but mediocre amateur.

        TC3 When I was in high school, my older sister and I used my upright piano as part of a room divider system to convert a shared bedroom into separate rooms (our dressers were added and there may have been bedsheet hung from the ceiling for added privacy). I've often wondered what it sounded like on her side when I was practicing piano.

        • TC3 likes this.

          ShiroKuro In the first two photographs the piano front panel looks to be open and if so sound shouldn't be impeded. In the third photograph there is plenty of room around the piano so I guess that is ok. I am aware that some players think uprights can be too loud because they are sitting only inches away from the sound board. If I had a room as large as in the third photograph there would have to be a grand provided the floor could stand it.

              Josephine What I had in mind looks like the last photo.

              Well, from your description though, it sounded like the piano would be in a hallway? The thing about that third photo is that the room is quite large, and I imagine that helps a lot with the sound.

              keff In the first two photographs the piano front panel looks to be open

              Hmm, I don't think it is. If the lower front panel were off, we would expect to see some of the metal from the plate or the bridge... like this, although not the same kind of piano:

                    ShiroKuro Well, from your description though, it sounded like the piano would be in a hallway? The thing about that third photo is that the room is quite large, and I imagine that helps a lot with the sound.

                    Yes, that's different, it's in a long narrow hallway. But I meant the hole in the wall.

                      ShiroKuro If the lower front panel were off, we would expect to see some of the metal f

                      In your second photograph the upper front panel looks to be angled inwards and this gave me the impression that the case had been partially opened.

                          I don't have a firm answer to your question, but my guess is that for the player, such an arrangement might result in standing waves and/or interference at certain frequencies with unpredictable effect. How much that matters, of course, depends on you.

                          In our case, shoving a 9' concert grand into an essentially 10' x 12' room has yielded some funky acoustical properties, as one might expect. There are certain notes whose volume or tone quality will change depending on where my head is located while playing. There was one note in particular that sounded quite different from the surrounding notes, and I thought it might have been a voicing problem. Out of curiosity, I pulled up a live spectrogram and saw that the fundamental tone was entirely missing for that note. After opening the lid completely to investigate the issue, the note was suddenly back to normal, with reappearance of the fundamental. It turns out that having the lid at half stick cause some strange interference pattern that was cancelling out the fundamental.

                          Minor issues like this are probably inevitable when putting an instrument in an enclosed space. But for me, it doesn't matter - I love the instrument and am very thankful to get to play a concert grand. Plus, we're moving in a year so this is only a short-term arrangement. For those reasons, I can happily overlook the funky acoustical issues and enjoy making music.

                          keff this gave me the impression that the case had been partially opened.

                          You could be right. Certainly that would change the acoustic profile.

                          @shawarma_bees your comments remind me that I should play on the half stick again and see whether it's better that way. Because my piano room is so small, I've been playing with the lid closed and only the music desk open, but the half stick might actually be better.

                          As for your arrangement, I think it's brilliant and the perfect way to have the piano you want while you look for a house to accommodate it!

                            I've found that an upright in an open room, just pushed against the wall, can sound significantly more muffled and closed. Pulling it away from the wall around 6in helps a huge amount, but oftentimes the reason it's against the wall in the first place is due to space constraints and not wanting it "in the way."

                            So I can only imagine that having the piano in the closet or a really small alcove definitely has an impact on the sound (but again, maybe that's what the home/piano owners want)!

                            Sometimes I suspect people don’t even notice when a piano sounds muffled, esp if they don’t have anything to compare it to.

                            5 days later

                            I think an upright, if you love it and are not inhibited (because of neighbors) should stand a few inches away from the wall. Mine is about 5" away. Like this it sounds very nice and the soundboard is also protected.

                            Sounds like a good set up!